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General Chat Thread, Building works making me chuckle.. in General; Originally Posted by localzuk Saying sparkies shouldn't install structured cabling comes from the fact that the majority are not trained ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Saying sparkies shouldn't install structured cabling comes from the fact that the majority are not trained for it. I've seen such installations and it was installed in the same containment as power leads, the ends were stripped far too far and the cable untwisted too much before being terminated etc... So, it is just a case of 'don't let untrained people install structured cabling', which happens to equate to electricians in the majority of cases.
    Is this a fact or an assertion? I agree totally that untrained people shouldn't install structured cabling however many electrical contractors do have sparks that are trained to install and it forms part of their apprenticeships these days. If a contractor installs it and they are NICEIC registered then the installing has to conform to the same standards as other cabling and can be inspected. This doesn't apply to specialist data installation companies who have no such regulation and who can set themselves up overnight.

    We have an electrical contractor who is installing cat5 as the school is being refurbished and they have sparks who punches down the cable at both ends and his work is excellent.

    As I said data cabling isn't rocket science and bad practice occurs in every industry, but that doesn't mean everyone is the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by truebluesteve View Post
    Is this a fact or an assertion? I agree totally that untrained people shouldn't install structured cabling however many electrical contractors do have sparks that are trained to install and it forms part of their apprenticeships these days. If a contractor installs it and they are NICEIC registered then the installing has to conform to the same standards as other cabling and can be inspected. This doesn't apply to specialist data installation companies who have no such regulation and who can set themselves up overnight.

    We have an electrical contractor who is installing cat5 as the school is being refurbished and they have sparks who punches down the cable at both ends and his work is excellent.

    As I said data cabling isn't rocket science and bad practice occurs in every industry, but that doesn't mean everyone is the same.
    I've not got any qualifications for installing data cables but I install new cables and relocate data cables for the college I work at. Never had any problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstech View Post
    I've not got any qualifications for installing data cables but I install new cables and relocate data cables for the college I work at. Never had any problems.
    I don't think you need qualifications as such, just have been shown how to do it by someone who knows. It's all fairly common sense stuff - keep it away from power cables, don't stretch it like a guitar string and so on. If you've had no problems then you're probably doing it right!

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    I know electricians invest in the equipment required to test their installations and I hope they have the required test equipment for the structured cabling?

    Ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by truebluesteve View Post
    I don't think you need qualifications as such, just have been shown how to do it by someone who knows. It's all fairly common sense stuff - keep it away from power cables, don't stretch it like a guitar string and so on. If you've had no problems then you're probably doing it right!
    I have seen and have had to clean up soooo many 'installation' jobs from electricians it is insane, miswires, bare crimps in puddles under buildings, wires stripped and untwisted 15cm before the punchdown, cat6 terminated into cat5 points and mislabled, cables hanging out of walls unterminated. Eeeep, you may be the exception but all the horror shows of cabling I have encountered have been perpetrated by electricians. We had to rewire a whole block because of such standards, even a stable link was a stretch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    I have seen and have had to clean up soooo many 'installation' jobs from electricians it is insane, miswires, bare crimps in puddles under buildings, wires stripped and untwisted 15cm before the punchdown, cat6 terminated into cat5 points and mislabled, cables hanging out of walls unterminated. Eeeep, you may be the exception but all the horror shows of cabling I have encountered have been perpetrated by electricians. We had to rewire a whole block because of such standards, even a stable link was a stretch.
    Well I don't think I'm the exception but I would suggest that the installations that you have encountered maybe indicative of all the work that those companies do - not just cat5 and also of them not being managed properly. They should all produce test records if they are terminating and not just running cable and be able to produce calibration certs for his test equipment

    Anyway this could run and run so I'm gonna retire from this now :-) Just don't be too hard on your sparky - he might know more than you think!

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    Quote Originally Posted by truebluesteve View Post
    Well I don't think I'm the exception but I would suggest that the installations that you have encountered maybe indicative of all the work that those companies do - not just cat5 and also of them not being managed properly. They should all produce test records if they are terminating and not just running cable and be able to produce calibration certs for his test equipment

    Anyway this could run and run so I'm gonna retire from this now :-) Just don't be too hard on your sparky - he might know more than you think!
    Do the network testers that produce the certificates need to be calibrated? I know that PAT testers and electrical testers need to be calibrated because I send the ones I've got off every year but didn't know about network testers.

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    @Kingstech yes they do.

    Ben

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    Kingstech (29th March 2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by plexer View Post
    @Kingstech yes they do.

    Ben
    @plexer thanks for that. I will look into getting our fluke recalibrate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstech View Post
    @plexer thanks for that. I will look into getting our fluke recalibrate.
    Well you don't have to if you're using them internally, it really only applies to companies that need to prove their kit is accurate for certification purposes. For internal work you can stick a label on it that says "For indication only". Getting flukes calibrated can be very expensive so I'd only do it every 3 years for my own kit.

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    Kingstech (29th March 2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by truebluesteve View Post
    Well you don't have to if you're using them internally, it really only applies to companies that need to prove their kit is accurate for certification purposes. For internal work you can stick a label on it that says "For indication only". Getting flukes calibrated can be very expensive so I'd only do it every 3 years for my own kit.
    @truebluesteve thanks. We have had ours for about 3years I think. I will look into it and see how much it is.

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