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General Chat Thread, No Sympathy. in General; Originally Posted by sippo Eating disorder yes, but if someone is 43st then something is wrong. She just isn't helping ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by sippo View Post
    Eating disorder yes, but if someone is 43st then something is wrong. She just isn't helping herself. Her parents are partially to blame as well. She should never have been allowed to get to that weight.
    quite, it's not like it creeps up on you

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    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jax View Post
    She needs proper clinical and psychologicak help in order to learn how to control her eating habits and deal with the reasons behind it.
    She did get that in the camp she went to. I think the argument made when she first put the weight back on was that she wasn't getting the support she needed at home.

    There's also the fact that is becomes increasingly difficult to excercise as your weight goes up due to the stress it puts on your joints. Which makes it easier to put on weight... which make it harder to shift it.
    Last edited by X-13; 28th March 2013 at 11:36 AM.

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    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sippo View Post
    Eating disorder yes, but if someone is 43st then something is wrong. She just isn't helping herself.
    This is an extremely hateful and ignorant thing to say. Have you ever been addicted to anything? Have you ever had a mental problem of any kind, like depression or anxiety? It's not as simple as "They just aren't trying!!!!". Pretending you can 'bootstraps' your way out of a situation like this is an extremely backward/old-fashioned way of thinking.


    Quote Originally Posted by sippo View Post
    Her parents are partially to blame as well. She should never have been allowed to get to that weight.
    This is obviously true as well, but people should be asking why the parents allowed her to get like this, not condemning them for it. It's pretty clear that the girl isn't healthy, so why did they keep feeding her even when she couldn't get the food herself?

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    chazzy2501's Avatar
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    I have to admit, I love to judge fat people. I like to point out you don't wake up fat and you can't get fat from the air, it went in your mouth. What really ires people when it comes to fat people are the excuses.

    Clearly though when you get to this state you need help, self-discipline is a fantasy when you can't toilet yourself anymore.

    Really what upsets me is that she was allowed to get into this state, at what point do people say that this behaviour is tantermount to self harm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazzy2501 View Post
    Someone must have noticed that she is too fat to get the food herself. Someone is feeding her. Why don't they ignore her requests for more food and supply a healthy diet. They're as culpable as she is.
    ^ this is my problem too. It is often the parents or carers who don't help the situation AT ALL. I think they need the counselling and support just as much as the obese person does. I have seen many of this sort of program on TV (car crash telly) and it is usually a family member who goes on bringing food because they cannot bear to see their loved one unhappy. I think they should be helped but I do think an element of blame does attach to them - at some point SOMEONE has to take at least a bit of responsibility for things being the way they are. Not ALL one person's fault of course.
    The fat camps are fine in their way but they don't motivate everyone or follow up with how to keep going after it is over - this girl is not taking hold of her own destiny.
    I do think that sometimes we do go a bit far with the "it's not your fault, it's an addiction" attitude. For whatever reason - even if it is a compulsioin - it IS you that did this to yourself and you have have dig deep to find the willpower and mental power to overcome it - and you should have all the help you need to do it.

    *unless you have a medical condition - completely different scenario then
    Last edited by witch; 28th March 2013 at 11:56 AM.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Tarring 'fat people' with the same brush is like saying that all black people are criminals or that all men with long hair are hippies.

    People are fat for medical reasons, mental reasons, laziness, or a mix of them all.

    Take my mother, she is overweight, due to medical reasons - she is on steroids and has mobility issues, so end result - problems losing weight.

    There are some fat people who shout loudly about being discriminated against over their life choice to be the weight they've chosen to be. These people? I feel they are in the laziness group.

    People with mental health issues find ways to cope with them. Some use self harm, some use food, some undertake risky behaviour like promiscuity or drug taking. These people need help.

    As a country, maybe even a world, we still treat mental health issues as something that can be treated with a 'stiff upper lip' or 'ah, they'll grow out of it' attitude.

    The medication to treat bipolar disorder? Lithium. A toxic metal which if you ingest too much will result in your death. Too little and it does nothing.

    We 'section' people for various mental health issues, but others we simply ignore or treat with anti-depressants which mute the issue.

    One thing to note with this girl is that her mother is also overweight, so doesn't have any self-control herself. Of course she wasn't going to get back to the UK and carry on being healthy, her mother didn't provide any support for her. If you've got multiple generations of fat people in a family, of course it will continue, and it'll get worse as it continues also.
    Last edited by localzuk; 28th March 2013 at 11:56 AM.

  7. Thanks to localzuk from:

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    She lost so much weight, said she felt good about herself then put all the weight back on.

    I still stand by the statement that she could have done something before getting to that weight. If she couldn't then someone should have, be that her parents, relative or friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sippo View Post
    She lost so much weight, said she felt good about herself then put all the weight back on.
    .
    She needs to answer the question - WHY did she put it all back on - and address those issues that come up.AND her carers with her. Or she will never get anywhere - well, she will - into her grave, I'm afraid

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    On the topic of addiction: you can become addicted to something even if there is no addictive substance directly involved, because like many activities, the brain releases dopamine when you eat, which can form an addiction-like cycle in the brain. This is the mechanism by which people become addicted to gambling, even though there is no substance ingested at all. Fortunately, the process is reversible, but it takes determination and time. Here's a slightly more detailed explanation in the context of porn addiction:



    tl;dr: you can be physiologically addicted to eating even if the food itself is not addictive.

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    OK, I will but in here.

    This time 18 months ago, I was 35st. When I attended bett 3 years ago (on the geek stand), I was 20st. In 18 months, I put on almost a stone a month, and this was nobody elses fault but mine. It came to a head when I sat in my favourite chair in the living room, and it broke (as embarrassing as it is). I decided to turn my life around, I was addicted (and I use the word very carefully) to junk food. When I ate healthy food, it made me sick. I saw a psychologist, a physiotherapist and a dietician, and between them, they worked out exactly what the addiction was. It was an addiction to the various sugars (dextrose, sucrose and maltose). Having cut these out for the vast majority, along with 95% wheat based products, I have gone down from a 68in waist and 35st beast, to a 46/48in waist, and 24st. I still have another 5-6 st to lose, however it is a slow process.

    Right now, I steer clear of all junk food, this includes - McDonalds (or any other fast food chain), any form of fried chicken (or products from a chicken shop), ready meals, pre-prepared foods (such as pre sliced apples etc). My diet consists of much more fruit and veg, and whilst I am still not back to my original weight, my skin has cleared up, my weight has not gone back up, and I feel better in general. However it IS a constant battle with the junk food, as I have to pass a row of chicken shops and fast food chains on the way into work and on the way home, and it is quite literally me talking to myself to not go in.

    She has an addiction, pure and simple.

  12. 2 Thanks to nephilim:

    creese (28th March 2013), salan (28th March 2013)

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    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sippo View Post
    I still stand by the statement that she could have done something before getting to that weight. If she couldn't then someone should have, be that her parents, relative or friends.
    How do you know? Do you know the girl yourself? Have you been through an experience like this? No? Then you cannot understand the situation. Why is it that people find admitting ignorance so hard?

    I myself was heavily overweight (nowhere near 43 stone though) from the ages of about 14/15 to probably November last year (I am 27). I was pretty extensively bullied at school because of this, and this gave me pretty bad self-esteem/confidence issues which I am still recovering from. I felt so massively unattractive and unwanted for so long that I didn't see the point in making an effort to change things. If everybody thought I was a massive fat waste of space, why shouldn't I be one? I am aware of how illogical this is now, but unhappy people rarely make great decisions. It got to the point where I dropped out of school after AS levels as I just couldn't take being there any more and then spent the following year being a literal shut-in. The bullying doesn't stop when you leave school though, people would yell things at me in the street and I had to leave a (admittedly crappy) part-time job because my boss constantly referred to me as "fat lad" (I told his superiors and they just told me to deal with it). You feel constantly scrutinized by everyone because it is acceptable to mock people for their weight in public. Nobody will ever defend you, and if you try to talk to people about it in order to get help you're pretty universally ridiculed. Case in point: When I was at school someone once held me down and rubbed a rotten fish they had found on the school field over my face "because I loved eating". I should also explain that my nickname at the time was "plum" for obvious reasons. I went to the my form tutor/head of year, primarily about the fish but I also mentioned the name calling and they said "Why do you think they call you that?". How are you supposed to answer that? All I, aged 16, could think to do was say "I don't know". They replied "Well then why does it bother you?" and that was the end of that discussion. The boy who had rubbed the fish on my face got a lunchtime detention and then carried on as he had been before. Nobody did anything or said anything. This was not an isolated incident where people could have done/said something, but didn't because obesity isn't really recognized as being a legitimate problem.

    By treating people like obesity is something they can "stiff upper lip" their way out of, you are propogating this problem. Use your empathy, try to understand how they came to be in that position and if you can't say anything helpful, don't say anything at all.

    (For the record I should say that I don't feel like this any more. I won't get into it too much, but I have overcome a lot of my issues and since November I've lost 3 stone. I'm not at a "normal" weight yet but I'm getting there. None of this would have happened if I didn't get the support I needed from my friends.)

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    @Sdrawkcab
    Sorry to hear about your situation but you have said exactly what others have said - you have overcome a lot of your issues yourself and you are getting there with support from friends
    Presumably, like @nephilim, you got to the point where you decided that you needed to sort it out and get the help. That's the point - I'm not sure this girl has got there yet - it seems to be almost like a switch inside your head that means that you don't want to be like this anymore. As you said, unhappy people don't make great decisions but there is only so much outside agencies can do to help. She seems fairly complacent about the whole thing - almost as if this is somebody elses's problem and if she waits long enough, someone will sort her out.
    I would certainly not make light of any of this but I do believe that until that day when the person realises, for themselves, that something must be done, any changes will probably not stick and very soon they will be back where they were.
    I would urge you to reread some of these posts - yes, there are one or two that are not helpful but many of us can see how someone in this situation needs lots of help to get out of it.
    PS - If you were my son then that school would have had me in their faces ALL the time. NO bullying is OK.

  16. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    OK, I will but in here.

    This time 18 months ago, I was 35st. When I attended bett 3 years ago (on the geek stand), I was 20st. In 18 months, I put on almost a stone a month, and this was nobody elses fault but mine. It came to a head when I sat in my favourite chair in the living room, and it broke (as embarrassing as it is). I decided to turn my life around, I was addicted (and I use the word very carefully) to junk food. When I ate healthy food, it made me sick. I saw a psychologist, a physiotherapist and a dietician, and between them, they worked out exactly what the addiction was. It was an addiction to the various sugars (dextrose, sucrose and maltose). Having cut these out for the vast majority, along with 95% wheat based products, I have gone down from a 68in waist and 35st beast, to a 46/48in waist, and 24st. I still have another 5-6 st to lose, however it is a slow process.

    She has an addiction, pure and simple.
    Well done to you. I was not as large as you, but at over 17st I suddenly realise things had to change. I got there from illness, including a spell on steroids.

    Fast food chains wouldn't be as prevalent as they are if they weren't addictive in some way. even if it just down to the 5 year old who wants the latest free toy.

    I gave up wheat to lose 4 of the 5 stone I lost. I will start on phase 3 to lose about another stone soon. There is a claim, I believe, that wheat is addictive. It's in a lot of things you might not believe, from sweets to grated cheese. I do a lot of wheat free baking now and have a nice little sideline doing it.

    I posted earlier but here it is again. Wheat Belly Blog | Lose the Wheat Lose the Weight

    It's easy to pick on people, as this thread proves. Not so easy to sympathise or empathise.

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    Miscbrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    People are fat for medical reasons, mental reasons, laziness, or a mix of them all.
    I would just like to add that I'm fat (ish) atm for personal reasons. I'm on a bulking cycle and am consuming 4-5000 cals a day and have lost my abs. I promise I'm not fat for laziness reasons! Spending the hours I do down the gym and the dojo I at least HOPE I'm not.

    Also, given muscle mass, even when leaner than most I'm still very much in the 'overweight' BMI category. And I would NOT say I'm especially muscular even.

    And while I'm at it, quitting smoking seems to be different for everyone who does it successfully. But EVERYONE who does it will tell you it's a right sod.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    I would urge you to reread some of these posts - yes, there are one or two that are not helpful but many of us can see how someone in this situation needs lots of help to get out of it.
    Yeah I know, rereading my post now I can see that I was flying off the handle a little bit there. My apologies if I came across a bit too aggressive, it's obviously an issue that is pretty close to the bone for me and so I can get a bit carried away when discussing it. It just frustrates me when people actively continue with ignorant statements like "he should just lose some weight" instead of just saying "I don't understand this because I have no experience to relate it to" and then moving on.

    PS - If you were my son then that school would have had me in their faces ALL the time. NO bullying is OK.
    Yeah the one thing I regret most about this was not talking to my parents about it. I don't think I've ever seen either of them so angry as when I finally did tell them. I had left the school by then though so there was nothing that could really be done about it.

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