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General Chat Thread, 18th September 2014 in General; So the date has been set. Scotland's voters will get to say if we want independence. I know the majority ...
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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    18th September 2014

    So the date has been set. Scotland's voters will get to say if we want independence.

    I know the majority of you here are all English, but what are your thoughts.

  2. #2

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    It's their choice, but given what's happening to Cyprus now is not a good economic time to try to go it alone. I have major doubts that the EU will let another small state join.

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    CESIL's Avatar
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    United we stand, divided we fall...maybe


    ...OTOH that's my wife's birthday!

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    ZeroHour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CESIL View Post
    ...OTOH that's my wife's birthday!
    And mine

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    featured_spectre's Avatar
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    If it happens, I predict the following:

    Scotland residents complaining they have no NHS - as 85% is funded by England and Wales
    Scotland residents complaining they have no free prescriptions - as it is 100% funded by England
    Scotland residents complaining they have no free education - as it is 60% funded by England and Wales
    Scotland residents complaining they have no benefits system (such as tax credits, childcare vouchers etc) as it was 90% funded by England, Wales and NI.
    Scotland residents complaining they have to pay higher income tax/Nat. Ins. to cover the costs of what they were getting subsidised from the rest of the UK.

    The UK government has already signed a contract to extract the gas and oil reserves off the Scottish coast with the agreement of the Scottish Parliament, with the Scottish Parliament agreeing to 25% of the money raised...I do not see how the 25% profits and the small population of Scotland (small for the landmass) would be able to sustain themselves as they are currently without some radical reform in their financial system.

    I want the people of any country to be happy, but the way this is happening is wrong. They need to phase in the changes to get people used to how things will be rather than cutting ties and going it alone (like the SNP want).

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    twin--turbo's Avatar
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    it would make things interesting round here as we are 6Miles from the border so we could get an influx or an exodus of residents depending on the cost of living on each side of the border.

    I was driving the Wales england border last year and thought that one house next to another must be worth a different amount purely because it was subject to one set of policies.. Ok that does happen all over the world on country borders but we are a small island that's supposed to be united.

    If it does happen then I think they must be self sufficient.

    Personally I don't think most sensible Scots truly believe that it's technically a good idea.

    But if they knock 50p of the price of Petrol, I will take the trip up to Gretna Happily

    Rob

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    m25man's Avatar
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    And when it all goes wrong there will be a mass exodus from Scotland to the south to take all our jobs and homes and benefits... Sound familiar?
    Let the Scots have their way, rebuild Hadrians wall, electrify it and redeploy the Troops from Afganistan to protect it.
    Divert the oil pipe lines down to Humberside and steal the oil, like the Russians do.
    Create tension and unrest in the region then invade it and take it back in the name of democracy.
    Sounds like a plan.... but I might have read something like it in Tony Blairs memoirs...

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    It's their choice, but given what's happening to Cyprus now is not a good economic time to try to go it alone. I have major doubts that the EU will let another small state join.
    I don't see why they wouldn't eventually be accepted. I guess there's a process to making an application for membership, and it could take some years. But in the
    meantime there's no reason why they couldn't trade with the European Union just as Norway do, without either being a fully fledged member state or signing up to the single currency.

    I don't think it would ever be a good idea for Scotland to join the single currency, not in it's current form anyway.

    the big questions for Scotland is what they would lose by gaining independence, and would they gain substantially more than the significant powers they already have through devolved government. The other worry for scottish voters is that they don't become the next Iceland or Ireland a few years down the road.

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    ZeroHour's Avatar
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    /note: care all, I am Scottish and admin so keep it sane and to the facts, enough said

    I need to see the books basically of how it would pay and balance before it could be considered. Right now I dont see many benefits and lots of risk but neither the yes or no team's have got to me yet with information. I am only minimally informed right now as was waiting for the date to be announced first.

    @nephilim please link to relevant sources for those numbers. Also read about the great black gold scandal as we could have been as well off as Norway if we had gone independent the last time. I was not aware we had signed a deal that would give over reserves like that, also a contract signed by the Scottish parelement in its current form is not necessarily the same as the nation of Scotland signing the contract as they could be seen as separate entities with the previous being voided out so who knows what would be hashed out.

    I know that the gov wants our gas reserves quite a lot as we have a fair bit of that, its not tapped much now because its cheaper to get it elsewhere then run the crews in our waters but as the price creeps up that will change rapidly.
    The govs recent tax hike for oil was a bit of a stab at Scotland tbh as it really caused the investment to dry up and a fair few companies started offloading their enterprises elsewhere rather then keep turning over the billions of extra tax. I suspected at the time that it was a bit of a play to make leaving the UK a bit less useful as oil could have potentially dropped due to that but it didnt as oil is picking up again in Scotland in a big way now. I think that tax has been removed/tweaked/reduced now too.

    I know that there are quite a few non-scottish that want to "boot the moochers out" etc when I went to England but its no where near as simple as that and in no way would it benefit either side tbh, there is a reason the uk gov doesnt want us to leave.
    I am a patriot but that just means I love Scotland and not that I hate everyone else for not being Scottish

    Edit: EU wise I think Scotland would possibly benefit from a Norway type arrangement as the common fisheries policy (although Norway is part of it) and subsides control the EU is centrally administring seems like a mess as usual too, I would not particularly want the EURO but likewise it would be stupid to make the "Dram" currency (what I would call our own currency) and have our own.
    Last edited by ZeroHour; 23rd March 2013 at 04:44 PM.

  10. Thanks to ZeroHour from:

    RabbieBurns (24th March 2013)

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    twin--turbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m25man View Post
    rebuild Hadrians wall
    That would give away a large part of northumberland... and a few bits of cumbria..

    Rob

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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    @ZeroHour, I couldn't have put it better myself. Exactly my sentiments about everything.

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    featured_spectre's Avatar
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    NHS incoming statistics pulled from the "Public Expenditure statistics analysis". The figures are £x.xxxBillions.

    YEAR : England ---Wales ---Scotland ---N. Ireland
    2006/07: 76.926-----5.000-----9.035------2.961
    2007/08: 83.335-----5.273-----9.727------3.055
    2008/09: 90.035-----5.562----10.179------3.299
    2009/10: 97.272-----5.917----10.593------3.443
    2010/11: 99.249-----6.065----10.821------3.790

    This also includes prescription costs. I got the document from my mums university course on economics, and it does not go up to 2012 and beyond unfortunately

    Education figures are based on higher education costs, and that Scotland ONLY charges English students, due to some EU legislation (they don't have much control of that), and with the English students in Scottish universities make up approx 20%, their costs cover around 60% of the education costs. The rest is subsidised by various taxes throughout Scotland. This information was on thestudentroom.com

    Benefits figures are from the parliament.gov.uk site.

    Will dig up all links later when home.

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    truebluesteve's Avatar
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    I have several Scottish friends and all of them want to remain in the Union, and so do I for that matter. However if the majority decided that they want to leave and live under President Salmond (and let's face it, that's what he's in it for) then so be it.

    If the Scots do want to leave then it has to be the whole hog with no support from the taxpayers of the rest of the UK. I think the oil debate will rumble on and on and only time will tell if it and the gas reserves will provide enough to support the economy, but I think it will be a lot tougher than the SNP would have the people of Scotland believe!



    Ps...It seems that they are going to boot the Trident submarine fleet out of Faslane if they get independence - now I'm not sure of the figures but I'm sure it brings a significant amount of money into the local economy which I would have thought was quite important. However I'm sure the Cities of Plymouth or Portsmouth or even the town of Barrow would love to have the business that the nuclear fleet brings!

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    jinnantonnixx's Avatar
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    I don't know anything about this subject, so I found an overview on some of the issues. Even a cursory overview shows an incredibly complex situation. I can't help but think that full independence would be a terrible idea,
    Reality check: Scottish independence | News | The Guardian
    Last edited by jinnantonnixx; 24th March 2013 at 11:48 AM.



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