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General Chat Thread, Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft in General; Dont flame me for this but I thought it was interesting --- Ten years ago, Microsoft was the company everyone ...
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    ZeroHour's Avatar
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    Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Dont flame me for this but I thought it was interesting
    ---
    Ten years ago, Microsoft was the company everyone loved to hate.

    The most vociferous Microsoft haters slammed the company for being a greedy industry bully that used its monopolistic, clunky, copycat operating system to force software on users and coerce partners into unfair licensing deals.

    Don't look now, but the role of the industry's biggest bully is increasingly played by Apple, not Microsoft. Here's a look at how Apple has shoved Microsoft aside as the company with the worst reputation as a monopolist, copycat and a bully.

    Read the whole thing here

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    mattx's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    I hate Microsoft & Apple. ;-) [ Specially Apple, & Steve Jobs ]
    Jobs has always been a self centered moron, specially how he treated his first girlfriend and daughter. At least Gates has some morals and gives a load of dosh to charity etc.

    P.S. Enjoyed reading that article.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    mattx - you think Gates gives money to charity for any reason other than to reduce his tax bill? Hmm, you are a more trusting man than I then.

    I don't hate Apple, but I do hate some of their business practices. I love their designs - computers by Apple are refreshing and trendy. I don't like the cost associated with it though.

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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    People know my feelings towards Macs ... and I get bored with flame wars ... but one things I have said to a number of people is to be thankful that Bill Gates came to dominance before Steve Jobs.

    Bill is ruthless and cut-throat in business and we can say that about many top players in many different industries (Lord Leverhulme is remembered as a philanthropist but he was cut throat in his business dealings and in politics to get what he wanted), but Steve Jobs ... well ... some would call him a megalomaniac.

    This is fine in someone wanting to beat the big boys with the monopolies ... but what happens when they become the big boy?

    The company still makes kit I love and I will buy it (just as I buy from MS) but is there truly anyone out there who has the presence and persona to stand up to Jobs? The companies that are trying to get in on the music areas that Apple is so strong in are big players themselves ...

    Is the era of the small evangelist gone? Do we have to rely on the big companies to fight it out with one another or get lawyers and accountants involved? "We think we can get more money out of you so we are raising the cost of shows!" "We don't care" "Fine, we will take our shows elsewhere!" ... What happened to the day when an idea was the thing that drove people to a company, the person with high ideals, the company that wanted the killer app or killer device, sometimes just to say 'Yes, we ere the people that started it all!'

    Bob Cringely gets slated and praised depending on the season but I still thinks he gets the general feeling of the IT industry spot on ... If you have not read his blog then I think it is worth it. Likewise, Triumph of the Nerds is a fantastic book (and tv series) and to some extent shows how we got to where we are today.

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    beeswax's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    A lot of you may have read this already, but for those who haven't I feel it sheds an interesting light on SJobs.

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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Steve Jobs gets on my titties.

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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    I don't have a great deal of time for Gates, but Jobs is an absolute arse. The man wasn't a problem when he was content making his own, specialist IT equipment, but the poor performing, badly constructed and expensive crApple music player and its associated software is just plain evil. If Gates had cornered the market like this, he would have been strung up by the balls years ago, yet for Jobs and Apple to do it is acceptable, even applauded for bringing digital music to the masses. The fact that in the same move, he has been responsible for thousands of people losing their jobs as record shops worldwide get pushed out of the market doesn't seem to matter which is a personal bugbear of mine - i used to be able to visit about 20 proper record shops within a ten mile radius of home, now i have two HMVs (neither of which stock vinyl) and one Virgin. All the indepents have been pushed out of business. I now have to order records from a mail order firm in Leeds. FFS.

    Anyone who buys an ipod is a fashion victim. There are better value for money players out there which don't tie you in to itunes. In many cases you can buy copies of CDs for less than they are on itunes. That is ridiculous. And the media should be thoroughly ashamed of itself for promoting it through anal "Whats on my ipod" features.

    .....AAAAAND RELAX.....

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Quote Originally Posted by jopijedd
    but the poor performing, badly constructed and expensive crApple music player and its associated software is just plain evil.
    The performance and capabilities of their players is personal opinion. I think the iPod nano mk2 was an excellent device, small, well designed and had a good menu system. I can't comment on the others, as I haven't used them, but if they have similar control systems then they would be similarly praised. On the other hand, I have used the old Diamond Rio and the Creative Jukebox and both were clunky and annoying.

    If Gates had cornered the market like this, he would have been strung up by the balls years ago
    He did, and he was...

    yet for Jobs and Apple to do it is acceptable, even applauded for bringing digital music to the masses.
    Well, yes, they did just that. If you follow the way the market emerged, they did exactly that.

    The fact that in the same move, he has been responsible for thousands of people losing their jobs as record shops worldwide get pushed out of the market doesn't seem to matter which is a personal bugbear of mine - i used to be able to visit about 20 proper record shops within a ten mile radius of home, now i have two HMVs (neither of which stock vinyl) and one Virgin. All the indepents have been pushed out of business. I now have to order records from a mail order firm in Leeds. FFS.
    That is an irrelevant argument and can be said about any technological advancement. The car put many stable hands out of work, the digital phone exchange put many operator's out of work. If there is a market, they will survive, if not, they won't. That's simple market economics.

    Anyone who buys an ipod is a fashion victim. There are better value for money players out there which don't tie you in to itunes.
    Depends what you want from a music player. My phone plays music, but the controls are useless. I'd buy an iPod if I had the money.

    In many cases you can buy copies of CDs for less than they are on itunes.
    So how are you restricted to itunes? The store is an added bonus way of buying music. You can still rip your cd's.

    That is ridiculous.
    Nope, that, once again, is market economics. That is businesses adjusting their business model in order to capitalise on a newly shaped market most effectively - and it works, I don't download music, I buy CD's.

    And the media should be thoroughly ashamed of itself for promoting it through anal "Whats on my ipod" features.
    The media just do what will get them viewers.

    Your comment pretty much sums up what I find annoying about those people who hate Apple. You don't seem to really have looked at the situation properly. At the full history of the market, the innovations that Apple introduced, the fact that people *want* their gadget to look good (like people want their car to look good, or their phone, or their kitchen, or any other item in their life).

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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    mattx - you think Gates gives money to charity for any reason other than to reduce his tax bill?
    I don't care much about his Tax Bill - at least there are people who are benefiting from his fortune in a positive way.

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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Apple introduced, the fact that people *want* their gadget to look good
    Not me, I want a gadget that works, I want a gadget in which I can change the battery, I want a gadget in which I can purchase music from another source and play it in another device that I already own.
    Not much to ask I think.

    Jobs just wants people to kiss his arse. ops:

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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Quote Originally Posted by jopijedd
    I don't have a great deal of time for Gates, but Jobs is an absolute arse. The man wasn't a problem when he was content making his own, specialist IT equipment, but the poor performing, badly constructed and expensive crApple music player and its associated software is just plain evil. If Gates had cornered the market like this, he would have been strung up by the balls years ago, yet for Jobs and Apple to do it is acceptable, even applauded for bringing digital music to the masses. The fact that in the same move, he has been responsible for thousands of people losing their jobs as record shops worldwide get pushed out of the market doesn't seem to matter which is a personal bugbear of mine - i used to be able to visit about 20 proper record shops within a ten mile radius of home, now i have two HMVs (neither of which stock vinyl) and one Virgin. All the indepents have been pushed out of business. I now have to order records from a mail order firm in Leeds. FFS.

    Anyone who buys an ipod is a fashion victim. There are better value for money players out there which don't tie you in to itunes. In many cases you can buy copies of CDs for less than they are on itunes. That is ridiculous. And the media should be thoroughly ashamed of itself for promoting it through anal "Whats on my ipod" features.

    .....AAAAAND RELAX.....
    I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Quote Originally Posted by mattx
    mattx - you think Gates gives money to charity for any reason other than to reduce his tax bill?
    I don't care much about his Tax Bill - at least there are people who are benefiting from his fortune in a positive way.
    Erm... Taxes are just that. They provide money to the country in which the person lives...

    Not me, I want a gadget that works, I want a gadget in which I can change the battery, I want a gadget in which I can purchase music from another source and play it in another device that I already own.
    Not much to ask I think.
    Well I don't want a gadget which I can fiddle with, like changing batteries - I want one that plays music and has a good menu system etc... And if you want to buy music to play on something else, use a different service. It isn't like they are forcing you to use itunes if you have another player.

    I still don't get your argument. People wouldn't buy them if they weren't good. Don't be geeky about it, look at it from the point of view of a normal person. The iPod/iTunes package is simple, easy to use and it looks good. This is what most people want - hence having sold however billion songs...

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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Well I don't want a gadget which I can fiddle with, like changing batteries
    :?: :?: :?:

    It isn't like they are forcing you to use itunes if you have another player.
    No, but they are forcing you to use itunes if you use an ipod !!

    I still don't get your argument.
    Not my problem.

    look at it from the point of view of a normal person.
    No, I look at it from a person who wants value for money & freedom of choice !! The ipod, itunes, iphone don't offer that.

    This is what most people want
    Like I said, I am not 'most people' If people want to be conned into using ipods, itunes and iphones thats down to them. I don't agree with the DRM aspect of it all - in fact ask your ' most people ' asyou put it, most of them won't even know what DRM is !!

    and it looks good
    Does it ? I think the ipod looks naff. The Technics 1210 mk2 direct drive turntable - now thats class.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Quote Originally Posted by mattx
    Well I don't want a gadget which I can fiddle with, like changing batteries
    :?: :?: :?:
    Just plugging it in seems good enough to me...
    It isn't like they are forcing you to use itunes if you have another player.
    No, but they are forcing you to use itunes if you use an ipod !!
    Not necessarily, you can use various programs in Linux to use it, but then I don't care - itunes is good. My phone (Samsung X830) requires me to use its particular software program in order to put stuff on it, so the software/hardware thing is nothing special.

    look at it from the point of view of a normal person.
    No, I look at it from a person who wants value for money & freedom of choice !! The ipod, itunes, iphone don't offer that.
    And as I said, that is not the point. It is simple market economics. The item wouldn't sell if people didn't want it. Saying that Apple are evil, or Jobs is evil because it ties people in to a certain program or hardware system is pointless - if people are buying it.

    This is what most people want
    Like I said, I am not 'most people' If people want to be conned into using ipods, itunes and iphones thats down to them. I don't agree with the DRM aspect of it all - in fact ask your ' most people ' asyou put it, most of them won't even know what DRM is !!
    So, if you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't go around whinging about it, as you are not the target market.

    and it looks good
    Does it ? I think the ipod looks naff. The Technics 1210 mk2 direct drive turntable - now thats class.
    Hmm, now lets see you carry that around in your pocket... Plus, that is one ugly turntable! This is a good looking turntable... Design is a personal choice, but there are certain things that most people will say is a good design. For example, Tower Bridge - most people think it is impressive, same with the Eiffel Tower. And that goes for the ipod, it is seen as cool and a good design.

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    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Not necessarily, you can use various programs in Linux to use it
    But why should you ? I also seem to remember Jobs once saying he did not like DRM - but has he changed anything on the ipod about it ?

    Just plugging it in seems good enough to me...
    On the subject of the ipod battery, does Apple charge you when it needs changing ?

    It is simple market economics. The item wouldn't sell if people didn't want it. Saying that Apple are evil, or Jobs is evil because it ties people in to a certain program or hardware system is pointless - if people are buying it.
    I never said Jobs is evil, I said he is a self centered moron. And the reason it sells is because Apple is very good at marketing, and your ' most people ' easily fall for their marketing measures !! I mean, just look at the amount of idiots who have bought a iphone which operates on only [ unless hacked ] on the AT&T network which is pile of poo. Clever marketing again.

    As the late great Bill Hicks once said:

    By the way, if anyone here is in advertising or marketing, kill yourself. Thank you, thank you. Just a little thought. I'm just trying to plant seeds. Maybe one day they'll take root. I don't know. You try. You do what you can. Kill yourselves. Seriously though, if you are, do. No really, there's no rationalisation for what you do, and you are Satan's little helpers, OK? Kill yourselves, seriously. You're the ruiner of all things good. Seriously, no, this is not a joke.



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