+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 30 of 30
General Chat Thread, Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft in General; Originally Posted by mattx Not necessarily, you can use various programs in Linux to use it But why should you ...
  1. #16

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,873
    Thank Post
    518
    Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,928 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    838

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Quote Originally Posted by mattx
    Not necessarily, you can use various programs in Linux to use it
    But why should you ? I also seem to remember Jobs once saying he did not like DRM - but has he changed anything on the ipod about it ?
    Huh? You just said that you have to use itunes to use an ipod, I point out that you don't and you say 'why should you?' - that doesn't make sense.

    Put it this way with the DRM stuff. Do you think Apple would have built up a phenomenal music store )ie. got the support of so many record companies to sell their stuff) if they hadn't used DRM? That is simply business sense. And now you can download DRM free songs via ITMS, as the companies have seen how popular ITMS is and have allowed it to happen - I doubt they would have done it from the beginning.

    On the subject of the ipod battery, does Apple charge you when it needs changing ?
    I have no idea, I don' have an ipod (or any music player) any more due to not needing one. However, I would likely replace such a device with the same regularity as I do my phone and my PC - about every 12 - 18 months, so battery issues wouldn't matter as the battery would last that long.


    I never said Jobs is evil, I said he is a self centered moron. And the reason it sells is because Apple is very good at marketing, and your ' most people ' easily fall for their marketing measures !! I mean, just look at the amount of idiots who have bought a iphone which operates on only [ unless hacked ] on the AT&T network which is pile of poo. Clever marketing again.
    Ok, no you didn't say that Jobs is evil. You said 'I hate Microsoft & Apple. Wink [ Specially Apple, & Steve Jobs ]', in a post about how Apple is becoming a bully. You didn't explain why, you didn't expand on anything. You go on to rant about the devices they make and the people that buy their products, even though you are simply not their target audience. And as I said, it is market economics. If people didn't want them, they wouldn't buy them.

    Also, I don't believe it is down to marketting. It is more down to the fact that Apple released a complete service, ie. iPod + iTunes + ITMS. Creating a previously unheard of solution from a single place. No other manufacturer did this, and this is what people had been calling out for. Their marketing for the ipod stuff is actually pretty crap in my opinion.

  2. #17

    mattx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    9,240
    Thank Post
    1,058
    Thanked 1,068 Times in 625 Posts
    Rep Power
    740

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Huh? You just said that you have to use itunes to use an ipod, I point out that you don't and you say 'why should you?' - that doesn't make sense.
    If you own an ipod the proprietary software you use is itunes. To make it worse files can only be copied one way with iTunes. You cannot take your iPod to a friends house and copy songs off of it or too another player.
    Does that make sense ? It does to me - thats why I don't own one !!

    And now you can download DRM free songs via ITMS,
    Only after a huge stink was created.

    On the subject of the ipod battery, does Apple charge you when it needs changing ?
    ... battery issues wouldn't matter as the battery would last that long.
    Nonreplaceable Rechargeable Battery - Keyword is "nonreplaceable", at least not for the average user. Anyone that knows anything about electronics and rechargeable batteries is that at some point they will fail and need to be replaced.
    Thats an issue to me, and if you own an ipod, an expensive one.

    You didn't explain why, you didn't expand on anything.
    I don't really need to, their over priced and hyped up products do that for them.

    Also, I don't believe it is down to marketting.
    Just blind luck & gullible people who don't fully understand what they are buying then.

    Their marketing for the ipod stuff is actually pretty crap in my opinion.
    Just like their products ;-)

    FYI and others:

    On February 6, 2007, Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Inc., published an open letter entitled Thoughts on Music on the Apple website calling on the "big four" music companies to sell their music without DRM. According to Jobs, Apple does not want to use DRM but is forced by the four major musical labels with whom Apple negotiates contracts for iTunes.

    On April 2, 2007, Steve Jobs and EMI announced DRM free music for EMI's complete music library for a $0.30 premium above the standard price. This began in May 2007.

    So Jobs is all for DRM free music but then charges you extra for it !! Tosser !!

  3. #18

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,873
    Thank Post
    518
    Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,928 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    838

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Oh come on Mattx! You are being naive to the extreme! Apple is a business. EMI is a business. EMI will have said to Apple 'yes, you can sell it without DRM, but we will want more royalties'. And then Apple have to recuperate those extra costs, and the cost of negotiating that contract. I seriously doubt that Apple are making anything from that extra $0.30 other than increased custom from people buying more songs.

    Also, what does it matter if the software is proprietary or not? Your complaint, as I said, was that you have to use itunes - which I pointed out was false. It simply is. And regarding the copying files onto another computer - that makes sense! You are only licensed to use the files on your equipment, so using it on others would be against that license. Same as it would be wrong if you ripped a cd onto their computer.

    And regarding the battery. If it dies during the first 12 months, in the UK you could easily claim that it should be covered by Apple due to trading laws, so they should replace it. Any time after that and you'd be looking at replacing it anyway...

  4. #19

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,873
    Thank Post
    518
    Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,928 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    838

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    BTW. I don't actually own any Apple products at the moment. (I use some at school though, and have had a variety in the past). I am simply trying to point out that most of the arguments against Apple are poorly thought out, and would have been thrown at any company that had prevailed in the online music market.

  5. #20

    webman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    8,406
    Thank Post
    640
    Thanked 961 Times in 661 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    324

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Well, the reason I don't use iTunes is the DRM factor and the cost. Years down the line, I wouldn't be able to copy the same downloaded file to a portable device or a CD or another computer (that I own).

    I also don't like iPods... They look crap, featureset is limited, I have to pay if I want to change the battery, I can't just plug-in-and-copy as it's not a Mass Storage Device, it's pretty useless for me.

    Apple's marketing doesn't work on me

    I still have 8-year-old MP3s on my server that have been copied to-and-fro from ZIP disks, harddrives, portable music players, and eventually file servers. The same could not have been done with DRM files.

  6. #21

    mattx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    9,240
    Thank Post
    1,058
    Thanked 1,068 Times in 625 Posts
    Rep Power
    740

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Well, the reason I don't use iTunes is the DRM factor and the cost. Years down the line, I wouldn't be able to copy the same downloaded file to a portable device or a CD or another computer (that I own).

    I also don't like iPods... They look crap, featureset is limited, I have to pay if I want to change the battery, I can't just plug-in-and-copy as it's not a Mass Storage Device, it's pretty useless for me.
    Amen to that !! ;-)

    Can you imagine a few years ago puchasing a record, tape, CD, MD, dat tape etc, taking it round your mates but not being able to play it ?

  7. #22
    Ashers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Basingstoke, Hampshire
    Posts
    69
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    Rep Power
    16

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    It still makes me laugh when I hear people say that Gates stole the GUI ideas for windows 95 from Apple when Apple stole the whole thing from the techies at Xerox Parc.

    Gates was just the man in the right place when IBM came knocking on the door, but the main point seems to be that there has always been an alternative that you can use either with or instead of Microsoft as they were are still mostly are a software manufacturer.

    Apple have on the other hand had the hardware linked in to the software, and this is where the issue of the lockin has become an issue, use our hardware an you have no choice but to use our software.

    But from a business point of view, I don't think you can say that either of them has done particularly badly. Maybe not ethical but then most businesses aren't, even those that say they are! But that's a different post altogether.

  8. #23


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,202
    Thank Post
    442
    Thanked 1,032 Times in 812 Posts
    Rep Power
    339

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    I just spotted this article, that suggests the new ipods are being designed specifically to prevent interaction with other free players, no more Amarok! and total lock-in to itunes which sounds like a familiar MS tactic.

    http://www.boingboing.net/2007/09/14...eengineer.html

  9. #24

    mattx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    9,240
    Thank Post
    1,058
    Thanked 1,068 Times in 625 Posts
    Rep Power
    740

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Sounds about right CyberNerd - thing is, people will still bow to Apple's marketing and be sucked into their rip off culture they have clearly adopted.

    Funny thing is I am about to pop out this afternoon and purchase a MP3 player as my old CD / MP3 player is on its last legs...
    Apple & Jobs can kiss my arse !!

  10. #25

    ZeroHour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    5,750
    Thank Post
    918
    Thanked 1,336 Times in 816 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    448

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Let us know what you buy Mattx
    Yeh its typical apple tactics sadly

  11. #26
    Norphy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Harpenden
    Posts
    2,384
    Thank Post
    54
    Thanked 315 Times in 245 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    120

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    I should start this by saying that I have an iPod and also say that I like it. It's the only Apple product I own so it's fair to say that I'm not some slavering Apple fanboy. I bought the product because it was the same price as similar products from Creative, iRiver and Archos at the time

    However.

    Limited feature set on an iPod? It's an MP3 player. It plays MP3s. What else does it need to do? It has an EQ, it can shuffle songs and play playlists. I don't understand the compulsion of manufacturers putting in other pointless features into devices like this. I never use the Contacts feature or the games on the thing because they're rubbish.

    You're not forced to use iTunes with the iPod. There are various third party apps which can sync to the iPod available for Windows, both commercial and free. Some are plugins for applications like Media Player and Winamp, others are standalone products. Admittedly, these aren't solutions which are supported by Apple and they're not advertised by them in any shape or form but then why would they? The only time you need to use iTunes is when you need to sync ITMS content on it but then the same can be said about WMP and Plays for Sure content, not to mention the Zune.

    And as for the ITMS. What are the alternatives?
    1) Buying your music on physical media and ripping it? OK, you can do that just as well with iTunes and the iPod as you can with any other player.
    2) Another online music store. Great, so you have a choice between DRM free places with bugger all content or places like Napster or the Zune marketplace which cost just as much and are just as, if not more restrictive than the ITMS. The only difference is that there are more Plays For Sure devices on the marketplace but they're generally regarded to be worse than the iPod. In my opinion, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    I really don't understand the hate you're showing towards the iPod. So you don't like it, it doesn't work like you want it do. Fine, fair enough, you can't please all of the people all of the time. However there is no need to brand the player as crap and denounce all who own one as stupid. And yes, I'm paraphrasing but that essentially seems to be what you're saying to me.

  12. #27

    mattx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    9,240
    Thank Post
    1,058
    Thanked 1,068 Times in 625 Posts
    Rep Power
    740

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    . And yes, I'm paraphrasing but that essentially seems to be what you're saying to me.
    I take it you are referring to me ? If so, I don't even know who you are !!
    And if I want to say the ipod is crap I am quite entitled to do so thankyou very much. I am expressing my opinion. I think the ipod is crap, I think Apple Macs are crap, I think microsoft is crap, I think Sophos is crap, I think ITV is crap, I think Liteon stuff is crap, I think PC world is crap - there is a lot of crap out there !!! [ In my opinion ] - top of my crap list though just has to be the ipod
    !!

    Not on my crap list is OS/2, AutoIT, open source software, the latest Bourne flick, bit torrent & motorbikes.

  13. #28

    ZeroHour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    5,750
    Thank Post
    918
    Thanked 1,336 Times in 816 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    448

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Quote Originally Posted by Norphy
    You're not forced to use iTunes with the iPod. There are various third party apps which can sync to the iPod available for Windows, both commercial and free.
    Thats what Cybernerds article said the new ipod broke. No third party stuff works on the new one because Apple decided to try and block everyone who does not use iTunes from using a iPod (such as linux users)
    Thats one reason why they suck.

  14. #29


    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,413
    Thank Post
    184
    Thanked 356 Times in 285 Posts
    Rep Power
    149

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    My mate was round today with his iPod. Hes the perfect example of a none-techy Apple man. Trendy, stylish etc, so the iPod suits him.

    Anyway hes already annoyed at its flaws, such as any mates he takes it round has to install "special" software in order to use the fecking thing. And more annoying is the fect that unlike *every* other player in the world you cant use folders! This is exceptionally annoying for dance music lovers. WTF apple were thinking there i dont know.

  15. #30

    tech_guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    That little bit in the middle of Little Old England
    Posts
    8,136
    Thank Post
    1,913
    Thanked 1,345 Times in 743 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Rep Power
    395

    Re: Opinion: It's official, Apple is the new Microsoft

    Quote Originally Posted by mattx
    . And yes, I'm paraphrasing but that essentially seems to be what you're saying to me.
    I take it you are referring to me ? If so, I don't even know who you are !!
    And if I want to say the ipod is crap I am quite entitled to do so thankyou very much. I am expressing my opinion. I think the ipod is crap, I think Apple Macs are crap, I think microsoft is crap, I think Sophos is crap, I think ITV is crap, I think Liteon stuff is crap, I think PC world is crap - there is a lot of crap out there !!! [ In my opinion ] - top of my crap list though just has to be the ipod
    !!

    Not on my crap list is OS/2, AutoIT, open source software, the latest Bourne flick, bit torrent & motorbikes.
    Can I add Poland to the list? I think Poland is crap too.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. For Those In Leicestershire LEA It Official
    By russdev in forum General Chat
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 13th September 2007, 11:36 AM
  2. Your opinion needed on web design
    By mark in forum Web Development
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 11th April 2007, 04:20 PM
  3. Official Microsoft training in West Midlands
    By tosca925 in forum Courses and Training
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 18th January 2007, 11:23 PM
  4. Opinion on SLT final choice of laptops.
    By tosca925 in forum Hardware
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 30th January 2006, 11:09 AM
  5. Distro Opinion
    By Diello in forum *nix
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 21st June 2005, 08:57 AM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •