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General Chat Thread, SSD's and Defraging in General; I'm getting my first SSD in a few weeks and will be doing a clean Win 7 O/S install onto ...
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    SSD's and Defraging

    I'm getting my first SSD in a few weeks and will be doing a clean Win 7 O/S install onto it. I'm very excited as I've seen them in action and the speed machines boot up and load things is incredible. One thing I've not heard anyone talk about is the need to/not to defrag them? Does anyone know if an intermittent defrag is still needed on an SSD drive? Due to the way they read/write, does defraging actually shorten their life expectancy? And with the speed of SSD's will defraging make any noticeable difference to machine performance?

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    nickbro's Avatar
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    Don't defrag SSD drives. It's extra read/write cycles that can reduce the lifespan on the drive. The SSD will manage fragmentation itself, and the seek-time is next to nothing anyhow.

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    Geoff's Avatar
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    Access times for a SSD are not an issue as there are no physical moving parts. So defragging doesn't increase the speed of the SSD. Additionally an SSDs life expectancy and total capacity is down to the number of writes to it. So doing a defrag will reduce the capacity and lifetime of the SSD for no net benefits. Another tweak you will need to do is to make sure the windows page file is not on the SSD either. Additionally you can do some trickery with Junction Points if you want to move Programs/User Folders/etc to the HHD.

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    Rawns (13th February 2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Another tweak you will need to do is to make sure the windows page file is not on the SSD either.
    Thanks for pointing this out @Geoff, had no idea!

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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    @Rawns - this guide has some good tips: How to Maximize the Life of Your SSD

  7. 2 Thanks to LosOjos:

    Geoff (13th February 2013), Rawns (13th February 2013)

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    Geoff's Avatar
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    I knew I'd seen a guide somewhere about this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Another tweak you will need to do is to make sure the windows page file is not on the SSD either. Additionally you can do some trickery with Junction Points if you want to move Programs/User Folders/etc to the HHD.
    Not sure I agree on that. You want to page file to run as fast as possible so place it on the SSD. There is a noticeable speed difference with page files on SSD’s but it well shorten life span, then again so will any internet temp files and caches. The way I see it is if you start moving everything off the SSD then what is the point of the SSD?

    My SSD has been running 24/7 pretty much bar the odd powercut, been used for video editing, kept all cache files local and running AB tutor constantly scanning the network and storing logs. Total work time 24,419 hours which is what 2 years 9 months? It still has another 8 years estimated life span according to SMART and SSDlife. Is it really worth doing tweaks to make it last longer then 10 years? I would rather have the speed and replace it in 10 years. Worse case is you cannot write to it, copy data off to new drive.

    EDIT: Looking around it seems SSD’s life spans are around 10+ years for 24/7 and around 20years+ for common usage.
    Last edited by Pottsey; 13th February 2013 at 01:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    this guide has some good tips
    There's a lot of bad advice in that article. @Rawns. Please read the following links...

    blogs.msdn.com/b/e7/archive/2009/05/05/support-and-q-a-for-solid-state-drives-and.aspx
    forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/36440-Windows-7-8-SSD-Optimization?p=621681&viewfull=1#post621681

    Quote Originally Posted by Pottsey View Post
    You want to page file to run as fast as possible so place it on the SSD.
    Pottsey is correct. The page file should be on the SSD.
    Last edited by Arthur; 13th February 2013 at 01:35 PM.

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    Rawns (13th February 2013)

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    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    There's a lot of bad advice in that article. @Rawns. Please read the following links...

    blogs.msdn.com/b/e7/archive/2009/05/05/support-and-q-a-for-solid-state-drives-and.aspx
    forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/36440-Windows-7-8-SSD-Optimization?p=621681&viewfull=1#post621681


    Pottsey is correct. The page file should be on the SSD.
    Nothing in the first link suggests any bad advice at lifehacker, and the second link is some random guy on a forum...

    Not saying lifehacker is spot on, but their views are the ones I hear from 99% of people on this issue, which is good enough for me...

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    Thats if you need a page file...anything more than 8GB RAM in your system and the pagefile goes mostly un-used. I got rid of mine as I have 16GB RAM and have not noticed any performence degredation with a SSD installed

    Another way of saving write cycles is to move your system restore data onto a storage drive as every install you do will use extra write cycles on your SSD when it could be doing them on a mechanical drive (as far as i am aware) it also frees up a few GB space on your SSD
    Last edited by HaleStorm; 13th February 2013 at 01:48 PM.

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    Some software will not function correctly without a page file. Most notably Virtual Machines and defragging software. Additionally it's best to have some wiggle room for the file cache and SuperFetch to do their jobs.
    Last edited by Geoff; 13th February 2013 at 01:52 PM.

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    I dont have an VM's running at home (on the main pc anyway), literally just windows and games....and 2 x 1TB seagates for storage...which i dont really use anymore as I build a Free4NAS box with a few Tera's of storage that lives up in the "airing" cupboard

    The defragging software not working without a pagefile is not really needed anyway as you dont need to defrag an SSD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pottsey View Post
    Not sure I agree on that. You want to page file to run as fast as possible so place it on the SSD. There is a noticeable speed difference with page files on SSD’s but it well shorten life span, then again so will any internet temp files and caches. The way I see it is if you start moving everything off the SSD then what is the point of the SSD?
    An SSD is a Time vs Space trade off. It's up to you where you want to focus this trade off. Boot up times? Wake times from suspend/hibernate? Application loading? General system response times? Task switching? Pick your poison and configure accordingly. Also remember you can choose not to choose and put the whole system on SSD but there is a cost implication of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by HaleStorm View Post
    The defragging software not working without a pagefile is not really needed anyway as you dont need to defrag an SSD
    So you are removing the Hard drives?
    Last edited by Geoff; 13th February 2013 at 02:04 PM.

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    Quite probably, whip them both out, switch a 500GB into it "just in case" and add the 2 ectra Tera's into my nas4free thing

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    If you are running Windows 7 on it it will sort itself out as long as it and the controller say to it that it is an SSD, my Win 7 box turned Defrag off on the drive and it sorts page files out as needed etc... I was very impressed but the Intel Chipset on my board is quite a good one so tells windows its an SSD.



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