Poll: Should HS2 be built

+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 60
General Chat Thread, HS2 - For or against? in General; So, the govt have announced the next part of the HS2 line whilst telling NIMBYs to shut up in no ...
  1. #1

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,663
    Thank Post
    516
    Thanked 2,446 Times in 1,894 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    831

    HS2 - For or against?

    So, the govt have announced the next part of the HS2 line whilst telling NIMBYs to shut up in no uncertain terms.

    People are discovering their homes are being labelled as zero value by mortgage lenders, and a number of homes are right in the path, including listed buildings.

    What do we all think of it?

    Should it go ahead because investment in infrastructure has been shown time and time again to be a massive boon for the economy? Or is that argument somewhat moot due to the fact it'll take them 20 years to build?

    Personally, I'm of the view that it should be built. Not because it'll being the benefits the government think it will as soon as it opens, but because the longer term benefits of it - more rail capacity for a growing population. The current rail system was built in Victorian times, and it exists in a very different form now than it did then, but the general structure exists.

    The amount of money that gets wasted is huge when it comes to government, but building something like this is a proper asset that will only grow in value over time.

  2. #2
    BassTech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    West Midlands
    Posts
    475
    Thank Post
    48
    Thanked 30 Times in 23 Posts
    Rep Power
    23
    If it's done right then yes, brilliant.

    But, this is England..... It will not be completed in time and it will be over budget. Oh, and I bet the ticket prices will be a joke!

  3. #3

    LeMarchand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    The deepest pits of hell
    Posts
    2,171
    Thank Post
    303
    Thanked 332 Times in 236 Posts
    Rep Power
    141
    Against.

    Not because it's a bad idea; I actually think that the stated reasons for it's construction make some sense (though I have read that similar projects elsewhere have shown that people in the less affluent regions end up travelling to the affluent ones to make money rather than people from the affluent regions travelling outwards to spread the wealth). I'm against it because it will be used as an excuse for Dave and George to grant big fat contracts to their mates funded by us, the tax payers. In addition, as far as I can tell, after we've paid for it the line will be run privately - so another mate makes all the money. George was comparing the project to the railway building in Victorian times, but those were built and financed by the people who were going to be making the money from the lines - not by the tax payer.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,962
    Thank Post
    159
    Thanked 152 Times in 116 Posts
    Rep Power
    49
    I'm all for more railway capacity but whilst I'm not exactly against this, I'm not hugely for it either.

    It's going to take an absolute age to build, and in some cases doesn't seem to reduce the journey time by a huge amount (though I am thinking of journey times from London only) eg London to Newcastle in 138 rather than 172 minutes...doesn't seem earth shattering to me considering how much it will cost. That said London to Manchester in an hour or so is a big improvement.

    Also surely once it is built, a two tier system will exist, the new line will be very expensive, and the current lines become the cheaper alternative, leaving no real benefit for most people? Though if they are planning to divert all passenger trains onto the new line, fair enough. And because it's Britain, and train travel is stupidly expensive, how will it deter people from flying instead? Unless they're just banking on the fact air travel will have become much more expensive by 2030

  5. #5

    Danp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,446
    Thank Post
    78
    Thanked 168 Times in 148 Posts
    Rep Power
    147
    Go for it, compo for the home owners and farmer. Country needs it.

  6. #6

    glennda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    7,802
    Thank Post
    272
    Thanked 1,135 Times in 1,031 Posts
    Rep Power
    349
    For me - doesn't really make a difference being down South - if I ever travel to the north I tend to drive anyway.

  7. #7

    broc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,046
    Thank Post
    104
    Thanked 401 Times in 265 Posts
    Rep Power
    150
    Against the idea; Taxpayers right across the UK will be paying to improve the travelling time for a relatively small number of business people who will use the service & it will allow companies based in London to close down branch offices in northern cities & support them from London. A better idea would be to increase freight capacity nationally & build more freight depots to allow local distribution and get lorries off the trunk roads.

  8. Thanks to broc from:

    CHR1S (29th January 2013)

  9. #8

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,663
    Thank Post
    516
    Thanked 2,446 Times in 1,894 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    831
    Ok, those saying put the money into existing infrastructure, how would you suggest that is done?

    The West Coast Main Line is almost at capacity last time I checked, for example, so improving that would mean adding more rails there instead - especially if you want to add more freight to the system. That'd cost more than HS2 anyway, due to it going through cities/built up areas where there isn't any expansion room.

    If it were put in to the motorway system etc... it has been shown that this doesn't work properly as the roads just fill up very quickly again - we need to get more people on public transport.

    So, ideas?

  10. #9


    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Leeds
    Posts
    6,583
    Thank Post
    228
    Thanked 855 Times in 734 Posts
    Rep Power
    295
    Quote Originally Posted by glennda View Post
    For me - doesn't really make a difference being down South - if I ever travel to the north I tend to drive anyway.
    its a nice idea in theory (but as above i tend to drive anyway)

    IF they renationalise or at least get bus/train companies to work together so we can have some sort of accountable intergrated network (thats reliable) then its good but if its just being done cos they can its pointless. Rail round here isnt that bad except the rolling stock and reliability (last time i went to leeds from doncaster for a training course in the 5 days i went the 1st train diddnt arrive on time once missing the connection, from a brief chat with the guard that train is always like that as the timetable is over optomistic) the south east seem to get the new trains we end up with rotbox single carriage dmus that should of been scrapped decades ago.

    im also not sure the planned route makes much sense nor having sheffields station at murderhell yes there is plenty of land but it then means a change of trains and await then another journey.

  11. #10
    nawbus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staffordshire
    Posts
    186
    Thank Post
    46
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
    Rep Power
    21
    Both West Coast and East Coast Main lines are pretty much at capacity now and because of the nature of their building it is extremely difficult to increase the capacity.
    Improvements have been made by improving the infrastructure and signalling and by having faster trains, but there is only so much that can be done to the existing lines.
    Because the lines are shared between fast inter city trains, slower regional trains and freight then this also has an impact. You can only go as fast as what is in front of you!
    HS2 will cost a lot and may not be pretty in places, but it's better than the equivalent motorway!

  12. #11

    LeMarchand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    The deepest pits of hell
    Posts
    2,171
    Thank Post
    303
    Thanked 332 Times in 236 Posts
    Rep Power
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    we need to get more people on public transport.

    So, ideas?
    Make it cheaper than driving, more reliable and as convenient as possible.

    I don't think that the HS2 will encourage use of public transport apart from those who need to get to its limited stops in hurry and who can afford what is likely to be a steep price.

  13. #12

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,663
    Thank Post
    516
    Thanked 2,446 Times in 1,894 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    831
    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarchand View Post
    Make it cheaper than driving, more reliable and as convenient as possible.

    I don't think that the HS2 will encourage use of public transport apart from those who need to get to its limited stops in hurry and who can afford what is likely to be a steep price.
    Making it cheaper - how?
    Making it more reliable - how?
    Convenient - how?

    Saying those things is fine and dandy, but without thoughts as to how to do them they're not really gonna do anything. At least with HS2 they are increasing capacity which potentially means those people who travel from those far away places can get to London and back easier meaning more capacity on the trains that remain (so less standing up). It could also mean that more freight could be shifted there if actual services can be removed etc...

  14. #13

    sparkeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    6,739
    Thank Post
    1,272
    Thanked 1,645 Times in 1,101 Posts
    Blog Entries
    22
    Rep Power
    505
    Just to be selfish for moment; I live in Leicestershire which will be ploughed through, homes and businesses destroyed and the Roxhill Freight Depot which will create 6000 jobs will probably be cancelled.
    We don't even get a stop. The closest is in the middle of nowhere in Totan (midway between Nottingham and Derby).
    This just to shave a few mins of journey time?

    We have been promised an upgrade to the Midland Mainline for years, finally investing in this will improve journey times and increase capacity.

  15. Thanks to sparkeh from:

    difinity (29th January 2013)

  16. #14
    rad
    rad is offline
    rad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Middlesex
    Posts
    2,478
    Thank Post
    335
    Thanked 308 Times in 236 Posts
    Rep Power
    109
    Against

    Living in Hillingdon it will wipe out a fair few houses, cross roads, and take out my OH work which "may" relocate all for a business model that doesnt make sense with the number of passengers they are forecasting. There are many white elephants out there, this may be one of them.

  17. #15

    HarryMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bedford
    Posts
    1,125
    Thank Post
    54
    Thanked 216 Times in 163 Posts
    Rep Power
    172
    I was listening to a local radio interview last night and they were saying that much of the investment by new companies creating new sites and new jobs is being diverted/cancelled/put on hold whilst HS2 is finalised and is likely to be cancelled and moved to other areas all together.

    Personally I don't see the need for it. If our major cites were further away as they are in other EU countries I could see the need to cut down the journey times but all we will be doing is creating another layer of elite transport that will be priced solely at the business user but paid for by the tax payer. Am I really going to want to spend an extra god knows how much for a ticket to skim 20 minutes off a journey, no, I don't think so.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Arguments for and against ipads - need info in a hurry
    By witch in forum Netbooks, PDA and Phones
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 10th May 2012, 03:20 PM
  2. Which PDA? For AND Against
    By Westfield_Techie in forum Netbooks, PDA and Phones
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 27th November 2009, 01:59 PM
  3. Disable network logon for a Security Group or an OU
    By mrforgetful in forum Wireless Networks
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 28th June 2006, 04:13 PM
  4. Looking for good online or self study MCSE course
    By ajbritton in forum Courses and Training
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 23rd May 2006, 05:44 PM
  5. Group PM for Admin and/or staff
    By NetworkGeezer in forum Comments and Suggestions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 19th May 2006, 05:32 AM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •