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General Chat Thread, Dear George in General; Originally Posted by andyturpie Absoultely barking! I'll agree with that. We can't go around punishing children for their parents' behaviour....
  1. #46

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyturpie View Post
    Absoultely barking!
    I'll agree with that. We can't go around punishing children for their parents' behaviour.

  2. #47

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Re: Dear George

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I'll agree with that. We can't go around punishing children for their parents' behaviour.
    And yet the system would have them funded to sit and learn that bad behaviour from their parents. At what point is sense introduced into the situation... At school when the damage has already been done.

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    CHR1S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    People you personally know and have spoken with about financial matters, or just a family you've said hello to once or twice in passing?
    Living in a council block in one of the roughest areas, block is assigned to income support families, constant arguing going on daily. Neither leave the flat other than the wife/gf to take kids to school. Making assumptions... yes, but in this case I would say they are right!

    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Tabloid sensationalism, probably a lot less than you're imagining.
    As a rule, they represent a specific % of the population. I don't read papers, I don't buy into sensationalism and the last thing I would want to be branded as is a daily mail reader but once again, I have seen it, in my social circles, friends of friends - perhaps we should/need to know the %.

  4. #49
    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyturpie View Post
    Are you advocating lack of personal responsibilty?
    No, I'm advocating (as Localzuk already said) not punishing children for the behaviour of their parents. I'm advocating trying to make things better by giving people opportunities they wouldn't already have. I'm advocating actually trying to make a difference instead of taking the close-minded, depressing, Ayn-Rand-alike view that everyone should just look out for themselves. "If someone falls on the path, who gives a crap hey? Let 'em die with the rest of the scum."

    Besides which, how can you possibly know the circumstances which lead to someone being a single parent? Or are you saying that if the family unit doesn't stay together, they deserve hardship?

    The fact that nobody wants to admit is that there is more than enough to go around, especially now. We just seem to be obsessed with this idea of entitlement based on your position. That's a whole other argument though.

  5. #50

    aerospacemango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    And yet the system would have them funded to sit and learn that bad behaviour from their parents. At what point is sense introduced into the situation... At school when the damage has already been done.
    That's a rather simplistic, and may I say, sweeping view! You only see the bad stories in the paper....especially the more right-wing papers (I'm looking at you, The Sun and Daily Mail!). No one wants to read about the single parents that struggle to give their kids a life. Who do their very best to look after them and not make that the defining instance of their young lives.

    It's much better to have a headline "Woman has 4th kid...and she's on BENEFITS!" That way you can get the middle classes all hot around the collar!

  6. #51

    mattx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbo View Post
    No you didn't. You posted a thread on Edugeek, a forum he probably doesn't read.

    Idiot.
    I did write to him actually. Idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    No, I'm advocating (as Localzuk already said) not punishing children for the behaviour of their parents. I'm advocating trying to make things better by giving people opportunities they wouldn't already have. I'm advocating actually trying to make a difference instead of taking the close-minded, depressing, Ayn-Rand-alike view that everyone should just look out for themselves. "If someone falls on the path, who gives a crap hey? Let 'em die with the rest of the scum."

    Besides which, how can you possibly know the circumstances which lead to someone being a single parent? Or are you saying that if the family unit doesn't stay together, they deserve hardship?

    The fact that nobody wants to admit is that there is more than enough to go around, especially now. We just seem to be obsessed with this idea of entitlement based on your position. That's a whole other argument though.
    It's not about staying together, its about getting absent parents to pay their way nothing more. The arguement about depriving kids by removing benefits is slightly flawed as we cannot be certain that all child credit cash is spent directly on children?

    Maybe it could be replaced by a restrictive voucher scheme?

  9. Thanks to andyturpie from:

    bossman (26th January 2013)

  10. #53

    mattx's Avatar
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    I have to say I do enjoy lighting the blue touch paper.......

  11. 2 Thanks to mattx:

    andyturpie (25th January 2013), tmcd35 (25th January 2013)

  12. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    Indeed....and I agree with that point.

    However, I'm not convinced that an online forum is the place to do it. The arguments become the same, throughout, and threads DO go round and round in circles. You only need to look back at all the other political threads!

    The people at the top actually seem to care less and less for those below as the years pass. Are benefits REALLY the source of problems? Not the massive influx of immigrant workers, so there are less jobs for those on benefits to aim for? Or possibly the multi-national companies that pay next to no tax, despite having operations worth billions?

    All of these ARE factors. But no-one really wants to admit to what must be done!
    I agree whole heartedly they ALL are contributing factors you mention but people's politcal persuasion will cherry pick some and shun others to suit their agenda. It needs to all be tackled at once in a pincer movement fashion, tax avoidance, benefits etc. Everybody needs to be in it together rich, poor, young and old.

  13. #55

    aerospacemango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyturpie View Post
    It's not about staying together, its about getting absent parents to pay their way nothing more. The arguement about depriving kids by removing benefits is slightly flawed as we cannot be certain that all child credit cash is spent directly on children?

    Maybe it could be replaced by a restrictive voucher scheme?
    What do you class as "spent directly on children"? Only on clothes? Or is spending it on food allowed?

    It would be to improve their quality of life, surely?

    Everybody needs to be in it together rich, poor, young and old
    A utopian view, if ever there was one!

    You will NEVER get those at the top of the pyramid worrying about those at the bottom.
    Last edited by aerospacemango; 25th January 2013 at 04:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattx View Post
    I have to say I do enjoy lighting the blue touch paper.......
    Thanks a lot, I should be heading home now, but caught up in this furore lol.

  15. Thanks to andyturpie from:

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    What do you class as "spent directly on children"? Only on clothes? Or is spending it on food allowed?

    It would be to improve their quality of life, surely?



    A utopian view, if ever there was one!

    You will NEVER get those at the top of the pyramid worrying about those at the bottom.
    1. Food AND clothing - I don't get why you were saying it could only be one or another, i'm sure that's what most of my salary went on when my son was born.

    2. "You will never get those at the top of the pyramid worrying about those at the bottom"
    Well there's two things that you can do in that case, try and win them around or join them. Doing nothing seems a bit defeatist?

  17. #58


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    Quote Originally Posted by CHR1S View Post
    As a rule, they represent a specific % of the population. I don't read papers, I don't buy into sensationalism and the last thing I would want to be branded as is a daily mail reader but once again, I have seen it, in my social circles, friends of friends - perhaps we should/need to know the %.
    Perhaps we should know. A pity the internet hasn't been invented or you could possibly have looked it up. Whatever 'it' actually is.

    Government estimates put benefit fraud at around ~1bn a year. That's 0.5% of the 200bn welfare and pensions budget. Worth attention sure - look after the pennies and all that. Tax avoidance on the other hand costs 10bn. I think the governments answer to this has been to cut the number of tax inspectors and increase the numbers in benefit fraud. Sounds like a good plan.

  18. 2 Thanks to pcstru:

    andyturpie (25th January 2013), CHR1S (28th January 2013)

  19. #59

    mattx's Avatar
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    4 pages in and no one has even mentioned Hitler. I'm inpressed.

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHR1S View Post
    As a rule, they represent a specific % of the population. I don't read papers, I don't buy into sensationalism and the last thing I would want to be branded as is a daily mail reader but once again, I have seen it, in my social circles, friends of friends - perhaps we should/need to know the %.
    You are describing a world I grew up in. Friends and Family. I know what it's like to have to live off of benefits, I've seen the other side and the choices that real people have to make. The actual % that truly are the scroungers that the Daily Mail like to paint of the "Chav" class is actually very very low in my experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattx View Post
    4 pages in and no one has even mentioned Hitler. I'm inpressed.
    I was building up to it, then thought maybe waiting and see if Cameron grows a tash for Movember was a better idea

  21. Thanks to tmcd35 from:

    CHR1S (28th January 2013)

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