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General Chat Thread, Dear George in General; I often wonder how things would have turned out if the government of the day had let Northern Rock go ...
  1. #16


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    I often wonder how things would have turned out if the government of the day had let Northern Rock go bust instead of bailing them out WITH OUR MONEY. <oops caps>

    Would the rest of them have cleaned up their act a little? Would the UK have disappeared off the face of the Earth in a puff of fiscal smoke? Would the sky have fallen in, aliens landed, poles reversed and all the other Extinction Level Events that we were threatened with if we didn't bail out the banks with TAXPAYERS MONEY.<oops caps again>

    All I remember was being told that we must give ALL OUR MONEY <caps must be stuck> to the banks to preserve our Cabinet Ministers' chances of that good old non-executive directorship on the board of <insert High St Bank here>.

    Or something like that.

  2. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by andyturpie View Post
    Good point, but just because a bank offers a service or deal (lets say allow mortgages on ad hoc overtime payments) , we as individuals should be intelligent enough to stop and say "thanks for the offer Mr Banker, but no deal".
    It seems that Banks themselves didn't understand the complex instruments they were trading. Yet you think the the man on the street should?

    Again banks did behave recklessly, but only dancing to the tune of the customers no demand, no reckless gambling.
    Banks sold complex instruments to each other and effectively to large institutional shareholders. They inflated their value and ignored the risk that posed to their own institutions, institutions which there were well paid to manage. We find out that they ignored no opportunity to illegally manipulate the markets (LIBOR) and investment banks were even selling investments to their customers which they were actually betting against (shorting). Sorry - but the only thing you or I can really do about that is to lobby our MP's hard so that these people are not allowed to get away with it this time or ever again. Sadly, instead of that, it seems people are actually swallowing the line that it was their fault all along. Bankers must be laughing out the other side of their massive bonuses.

  3. #18
    Robz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post

    <snip>

    But George Osborne is also a pillock for refusing to acknowledge the proof in front of his eyes and continuing to push forward with his austerity measures on the basis of a flawed analogy. The recent headline High Street closures that are still taking place, would, you might hope, be a wake up call, but I fear that the ghost-possessed-sausage that is our Chancellor is as oblivious and disconnected from reality as all our politicans are. If not more so.

    The problem is I wouldn't want any of them running the economy.


    Businesses are businesses, unless the government bails them all out some will undoubtedly fail its the nature of doing business they are affected by many factors, can't blame the government entirely for that. If I was the government I would do more to help smaller businesses like cutting business rates (which local councils have been increasing despite the problems).

    And I agree I'd rather not have any of them either but better the lesser evil.

  4. #19
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    So with all this recession and the extreme austerity the torys have butchered from the country that debt is reduced then is it?
    I mean, were actually better off under the tories and things are getting better?

    No .... its not. We are borrowing more now !. How the hell is that labours fault?

    Selling gold at a low price (set by the market) to pay off debt that generates interest is debatable as to if it was the right thing to do, but it was done without knowing the fiasco that crashed the banks and started this mess. I suppose the torries selling off profitable companies we owned when they were in power is some how different and yet this is some how forgotten in a scented haze of ignorance?

    Its pointless debating politics here, as its a personal thing and support for a party can be for personal or 'in the countries best interests' reasons. I doubt any 1 party can be 100% in line with your views and so you have to take the 'best of whats on offer' view and pick the one that represents your views the best.

    The system is borked.

    The people who are trying to get us out of this mess are the ones who got us in it in the first place and the cretins who are in power right now I wouldn't trust to run a snack van never mind the country.

    Right here, right now Id say we were better off under the monarchy and would sack the lot of the money grabbing leeches and let the King/Queen rule for 5o years then have a vote if we want to go back to the retards in westminster.

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  6. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    I often wonder how things would have turned out if the government of the day had let Northern Rock go bust instead of bailing them out WITH OUR MONEY. <oops caps>
    Many individuals - investors with NR, would have lost everything but perhaps worse there would have been a domino effect, so it wouldn't just have been customers of NR. So you might see your or your parents savings evaporate, good viable businesses close as their ability to buy stock evaporates. The consequences would have been fairly random - a lottery of loss. Better IMO to share the pain as long as we take steps to ensure it can never happen again. Sadly, the last bit seems to be a bit lacking. Rank, rampant greed used to be ugly - now just call it capitalism and ... well, that's all right then , go right ahead.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattx View Post
    Dear George, I wrote to you a while ago asking that you stop 'playing around' with the country's economy. But oh no, whilst you and your rich chums have enjoyed your tax breaks you awarded yourselves, today we find out that the economy has shrank by 0.3% over the last 3 months. Stick to folding towels at Selfridges, surely you can manage that because numbers arn't really your strong point......Idiot.
    No you didn't. You posted a thread on Edugeek, a forum he probably doesn't read.

    Idiot.

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  9. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyturpie View Post
    We all as individuals have to take a slice of responsibilty for the mire we are in. Too many of us living their lives on the old flexible friends, we complain that we are poor, but we have luxuries like large screen TV's, all the best gadgets and are part of the throwaway society. We don't really know the meaning of poor, like our parents and grandparents. I see Osbourne only reacting to society's actions.
    None of those caused International (not just america) banks to lend money they didn't have.

    None of those caused financial investment companies to sell debt to each other for short term profit.

    None of those caused our banks to fiddle rates between themselves.


    Its a great excuse for silly cuts, great excuse for giving the banks billions and forcing the rest of us to pay it off.

  10. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galway View Post
    I suppose the torries selling off profitable companies we owned when they were in power is some how different and yet this is some how forgotten in a scented haze of ignorance?
    No, it had not been forgotten

    I doubt any 1 party can be 100% in line with your views and so you have to take the 'best of whats on offer' view and pick the one that represents your views the best.
    Very true, but at least I can name 1 party 100% not in line with any of my views...

    The system is borked.
    Totally but what you gonna do? I thought the LD's had it right at the last general election. Looks like a lot of the country agreed with me at the time - just no where near enough, voting LD gave us a Tory coallition monster. Oh well, live and learn. The systems broke and you can't fix it...


    Right here, right now Id say we were better off under the monarchy and would sack the lot of the money grabbing leeches and let the King/Queen rule for 5o years then have a vote if we want to go back to the retards in westminster.
    Mmm, I can imagine the success of some of King Charles policies...

  11. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    Gordon Brown probably shouldn't have sold all the gold off, and certainly shouldn't have announced that he was about to flood the market to plummet the prices just before he did.

    But George Osborne is also a pillock for refusing to acknowledge the proof in front of his eyes and continuing to push forward with his austerity measures on the basis of a flawed analogy. The recent headline High Street closures that are still taking place, would, you might hope, be a wake up call, but I fear that the ghost-possessed-sausage that is our Chancellor is as oblivious and disconnected from reality as all our politicans are. If not more so.

    The problem is I wouldn't want any of them running the economy.

    The problem is that High Street closures are taking place is because they played ball and paid all their taxes. Major on line only retailers having been exposed as tax avoiding scumbags (no names), where their customers are guilty of accessory to tax avoidance. These customers are usually the one's that kick off when there are cuts backs in services and on infrastructure. These customers usually call someone to say their "stuck in traffic" but won't admit they are "part of the traffic", these customers complain on one hand about wishing the nanny state would but out of their lives on one hand but scream "What is the government doing?" on the other.

    These customers are you and ME. These customers are society.

  12. #25

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    Re: Dear George

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ it's not just a movie, it is an enditement of society. Nostradamus eat your heart out.

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  14. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyturpie View Post
    The problem is that High Street closures are taking place is because they played ball and paid all their taxes. Major on line only retailers having been exposed as tax avoiding scumbags (no names), where their customers are guilty of accessory to tax avoidance. These customers are usually the one's that kick off when there are cuts backs in services and on infrastructure. These customers usually call someone to say their "stuck in traffic" but won't admit they are "part of the traffic", these customers complain on one hand about wishing the nanny state would but out of their lives on one hand but scream "What is the government doing?" on the other.

    These customers are you and ME. These customers are society.
    The problems with the high street are not just down to taxes. They are down to many things, such as local authority planners not understanding the pressures on retailers and pushing prices up for their rates when they clean up their town centres, the landlords for the properties did similar things also.

    The next issue was the lack of understanding by retailers of their competition and their own failing business models. They grew large, but not agile. So, by the time they saw the problems approaching they were too late. They'd signed long leases on properties, expanded and consolidated their warehousing etc... to such an extent that a drop in sales basically made it impossible for them to shrink back down.

    A few such retailers - GAME, Comet, HMV, Peacocks, Jessops, La Senza, etc... they all did the same thing. They grew without being able to shrink. They didn't maintain working capital sufficiently, instead relying far too much on credit which inevitably dries up.

    Sure, we are somewhat culpable as shoppers, for using cheaper sources, but when we see companies failing to adapt, why should we continue to support their broken businesses? I used to pirate music, I couldn't support the music industry because they simply wouldn't change and were unwilling to embrace the digital world. Now? I am a paid subscriber to Spotify and have been for about 3 1/2 years now. I've played 10s of thousands of tracks on that system, and have paid about 400 to do so. They'll continue to get my money too.

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  16. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Apart from what he's doing is essentially cutting everything out, so he lives on bread and butter. A compromise is needed so at least you can give yourself a good meal. That's the best way I can explain it.
    Completely agree. The country was living above its means so savings and cuts were needed but I think its gone too far and too hard. There's a difference between cutting your electricity bill by turning off appliances when you're not using them and cutting your electricity bill by switching it off at the mains and making do with candles everywhere.

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  18. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberto View Post
    Completely agree. The country was living above its means so savings and cuts were needed but I think its gone too far and too hard. There's a difference between cutting your electricity bill by turning off appliances when you're not using them and cutting your electricity bill by switching it off at the mains and making do with candles everywhere.
    Exactly!

  19. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyturpie View Post
    We all as individuals have to take a slice of responsibilty for the mire we are in. Too many of us living their lives on the old flexible friends, we complain that we are poor, but we have luxuries like large screen TV's, all the best gadgets and are part of the throwaway society. We don't really know the meaning of poor, like our parents and grandparents. I see Osbourne only reacting to society's actions.
    Let me give you a slightly different perspective on this.

    I have earned my money, saved to buy my big screen TV and all the best gadgets, pay my mortgage, save what I cant, pay into my pension.

    Now, the family in the flat below my GF, neither work, they have 3 children, they smoke copious amounts of the marijuana and almost permanently have one of their many large screen TVs so loud that I could play the game that's on their Xbox/PS3. All hours of the day too, I've been awoken at 4am on a weekday a couple of times.
    How many other families live like this? How much money is the country pissing away giving lazy families an easy life?
    I would love to quit my job and play xbox all day.

    You then have the stupid situation with single mothers/fathers who's support payments are more than they can earn in a legitimate job? What incentive does this give to actually return to work? In some situations you would have to work 36+ hours a week to even match the payments, then deduct childcare etc. Again, would would people bother?

    The whole lot needs looking at and starting again, so that it supports those willing to put the effort in and help them keep their heads above water and not fund a families drug/gaming luxury!

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  21. #30

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHR1S View Post
    You then have the stupid situation with single mothers/fathers who's support payments are more than they can earn in a legitimate job? What incentive does this give to actually return to work? In some situations you would have to work 36+ hours a week to even match the payments, then deduct childcare etc. Again, would would people bother?
    When I met my (now) wife she was earning 13k a year pro-rata'd down as a 37hr, 40 weeks TA level 1. She owned her own house with a minimal mortgage on it, having been lucky in her timing moving up North from the Southern housing bubble. She had a daughter, 7. She got income support & various other benefits.
    When I moved in with her I was a technician earning 18k full time. The income coming into the house approximately tripled in gross terms, once the pro-rata was taken into account.
    At that point she had less money in pocket - much, much less - per month than before. From 10k a year to 28k a year as a household and we were worse off. In what possible world can that make sense.

    I am all for benefits - believe me I am, America's lack of safety net on every count (health, job etc.) terrifies me, and I generally agree with left-wing policies and despise those of the right-wing - but something has gone very very wrong with the way benefits are distributed.

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