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General Chat Thread, Gove sacks quarter of DfE :jaw: in General; Originally Posted by MattHarwood I agree Voda and others have acted immorally, but that profit to the shareholders tends to ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattHarwood View Post
    I agree Voda and others have acted immorally, but that profit to the shareholders tends to work out as the man on the street - pension funds, savings accounts etc.
    Yeah right. So have a look at Vodafone Annual Report 2012 - Directors' Salaries and then tell me that the £6bn tax they avoided - sorry, I mean 'were let off' - in 2010 went to the man in the street.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    less regulation is better
    Like the banks? I hope your pension is somewhere safe...

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    Quote Originally Posted by timzim View Post
    Yeah right. So have a look at Vodafone Annual Report 2012 - Directors' Salaries and then tell me that the £6bn tax they avoided - sorry, I mean 'were let off' - in 2010 went to the man in the street.

    Total remuneration of the Directors was £6.7 million, that small bit to the right of the chart. That big bit on the left of the chart is the total dividend payout to shareholders, ie 'the man on the street' who owns shares in Vodafone, the pension fund of 'the man on the street', had a payout of over £6 billion, on which tax is paid by the receiver of the dividend. Look at the two biggest shareholders in Vodafone, one is an investement company used by pension funds, the other is Legal & General, a pension company.

  4. 2 Thanks to teejay:

    MattHarwood (15th November 2012), zag (15th November 2012)

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    Quote Originally Posted by teejay View Post
    Total remuneration of the Directors was £6.7 million, that small bit to the right of the chart. That big bit on the left of the chart is the total dividend payout to shareholders, ie 'the man on the street' who owns shares in Vodafone, the pension fund of 'the man on the street', had a payout of over £6 billion, on which tax is paid by the receiver of the dividend. Look at the two biggest shareholders in Vodafone, one is an investement company used by pension funds, the other is Legal & General, a pension company.
    Ah, you must mean 'the man i the street who earns enough to buy shares and/or afford a decent private pension'. I was thinking of 'the man in the street who works hard all his life, pays all the taxes & NI he owes and is looking forward to his meagre state pension & free healthcare, mainly funded by tax paid by large corporations'. Wrong man, wrong street, silly me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timzim View Post
    Ah, you must mean 'the man i the street who earns enough to buy shares and/or afford a decent private pension'. I was thinking of 'the man in the street who works hard all his life, pays all the taxes & NI he owes and is looking forward to his meagre state pension & free healthcare, mainly funded by tax paid by large corporations'. Wrong man, wrong street, silly me.
    That just sounds like someone who is bitter, sorry. It isn't anyone else's fault if someone has a bad pension provision but their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    That just sounds like someone who is bitter, sorry. It isn't anyone else's fault if someone has a bad pension provision but their own.
    I think you might find a lot of bitter people out there. They're bitter that large corps get away with grand theft while they struggle to make ends meet.
    Last edited by timzim; 15th November 2012 at 10:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timzim View Post
    Ah, you must mean 'the man i the street who earns enough to buy shares and/or afford a decent private pension'. I was thinking of 'the man in the street who works hard all his life, pays all the taxes & NI he owes and is looking forward to his meagre state pension & free healthcare, mainly funded by tax paid by large corporations'. Wrong man, wrong street, silly me.
    Who said anything about a private pension, what about your Local Government Pension Scheme, their main investment is in shares. You have savings in an ISA, well that's invested in shares. Shares in companies can be bought by anyone, there is no law that says shares can only be bought if you went to Eton
    Vodafone, Starbucks, Amazon etc still pay a huge chunk in tax, look at Employer NICs, Business Rates, etc etc. The headline figures are mainly about one tax, Corporation Tax, which raises around £44 billion per year, less than 10% of the total tax receipts, your state pension and your healthcare are mainly funded through Income Tax, National Insurance and VAT which account for around £360 billion.

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    Just to put this in context, Vodafone as an international company has a turnover of around £46 billion, it's total international tax bill is just over £14 billion of which around £1.4 billion is paid in the UK, the rest is paid in other countries it operates in.
    Sources: Vodafone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Performance data - Vodafone

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    zag
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    Nice info teejay. Very well explained!

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    Quote Originally Posted by timzim View Post
    I think you might find a lot of bitter people out there. They're bitter that large corps get away with grand theft while they struggle to make ends meet.
    No, they are bitter through jealousy, and through perceptions that are often incorrect, due to ridiculous publications like the Daily Mail telling them half truths and the like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    No, they are bitter through jealousy, and through perceptions that are often incorrect, due to ridiculous publications like the Daily Mail telling them half truths and the like.
    Wait! What? The DM isn't a quality, truthful source of info?!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by teejay View Post
    Just to put this in context, Vodafone as an international company has a turnover of around £46 billion, it's total international tax bill is just over £14 billion of which around £1.4 billion is paid in the UK, the rest is paid in other countries it operates in.
    Sources: Vodafone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Performance data - Vodafone
    Hmm, both good sources of the truth - Wikipedia & Vodafone's own website

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    Quote Originally Posted by timzim View Post
    Hmm, both good sources of the truth - Wikipedia & Vodafone's own website
    Don't automatically assume that Wikipedia is unreliable - that's as bad as assuming something is reliable. Are the facts in the Wikipedia page sourced? Are those sources reliable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by timzim View Post
    Hmm, both good sources of the truth - Wikipedia & Vodafone's own website
    I'm providing you with facts taken from the Vodafone audited accounts, unfortunately I don't have time to hack into the banks accounts of Vodafone and HMRC to confirm the payments myself for you

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    Quote Originally Posted by timzim View Post
    I think you might find a lot of bitter people out there. They're bitter that large corps get away with grand theft while they struggle to make ends meet.
    I'm bitter.

    I'm bitter that Labour scrapped tax relief on private sector pensions, destroying the private pensions system at a stroke. I'm bitter that Labour spent more than they took in taxes every year from 2001 to 2010, buying favours with money that hasn't been earned yet. I'm bitter that Gordon Brown sold half Britain's gold at 1/3 of its current price.

    I'm bitter that I will never be able to afford to retire while I'm paying for public sector workers to retire much too early.

    But mostly I'm fed up to the back teeth with naive Guardian readers wailing about how much more money the country should be taking in tax, without even the faintest thought that, if Labour hadn't <language!> so much money up the wall, we wouldn't be in this position.

    Did you know that we pay £60 Billion a year merely to pay the interest on the national debt? £60 Billion is half the budget for the NHS. Did you know that half that national debt was created since 1997?

    But no, real numbers and facts never matter, it's all emoting and 'boo hiss evul torays' from the hard-of-thinking.
    Last edited by Dos_Box; 15th November 2012 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Language

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