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General Chat Thread, Council Pay Reform in General; The same way that Teachers have a common pay scale but still have additional money for extra responsibilities that vary ...
  1. #16

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    The same way that Teachers have a common pay scale but still have additional money for extra responsibilities that vary from school to school the idea that all support staff are paid according to a common scale according to the work they do.

    The main problem is that what support staff actually do is often not the same as what is n their job description. Also, when the review happens they compare you against a job structure they already have and they try to pigeon hole you. For some it works, for others it doesn't.

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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    It's called R2R here. It stands for Route to Review and it's really, really upset many people because it's effectively telling them that they only type or that their level of knowledge does not constitute the pay that they're on at the moment.

    Some schools have dished out all of their "evaluations" but I've yet to see mine despite everyone else having theirs. This leads me to think that it's not good news at all.

    Some people report examples like the Site Manager getting less points than the Lunchtime Supervisor, Finance Assistants/Bursars being graded less than Office staff and Network Managers being dropped to Technician status. Not that all those jobs aren't important and worthy in their own right.

    Seems like an exercise in reducing overall pay packets to me.

    Here they're using the Greater London scales to calculate our points and so far I've not heard of anyone being told what points will equate to which pay scale and we're expected to sign this agreement effective blind. Guess what - I foresee loads of appeals being put in come September.

    Does anyone have a points/Pay table they care to PM to me for a loose comparison of what we're likely to get?

    HBJB

  3. #18

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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    Thanks for all of your responses If our head of Admin is in tomorrow, then i'll ask her whats going on! I've heared nothing about the County Council comparison.

    The unions etc are deciding on that cost of living change percentage.

    Will update you as and when I hear anything!!

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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    Quote Originally Posted by russdev

    Hi Adam

    Currently in Leicestershire the cost of living is being decided initial offer from unions was I think 2.5 % plus increase of paid holidays from standard 22 to 25 or those already on 25 or above get 3 more holiday days.

    But as most public sector wages (ironey including teachers wages) lea wants to follow government line of a max of 2% for public sector increases.

    At moment unions still talking to lea etc so it is wait and see game..

    Russell
    i like the sound of 3 more days holiday! that'd come in very handy... 2& is a bit naff thought, is inflation still set at 2.6%? I assume the increases in the BOE base rate are designed to keep it at that rate, but my info is a year old i fear...

  5. #20
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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    It's called Job Evaluation down here in Devon.

    It was supposed to be complete by April, but very few of the appeals (and there are lots of them from what I've herd) have been processed yet).

    Not sure how it is being done elsewhere, but here we all got a list of generic 'job roles' and a somewhat brief description of each of them. These consisted of about 5 or 6 statements for each 'job role' (all very vague) which defined the level of responsibility of the role rather than specific tasks.

    We had to decide which of these was a 'best fit' to what we actually do and place ourselves into a specific box. The Head also did this (for us). We then each had a meeting with the Head where he stated which box he felt was closest and we stated if we agreed or not, and if not, which box we felt was more appropriate.

    To achieve the April deadline, we were all re graded to the 'Job Role' the Head decided (whether we had agreed or not).

    We are now waiting for the first round of appeals to be herd.

  6. #21
    ninjabeaver's Avatar
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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    Well, this is still dragging with no date for a finish yet. Broken promises litter the path that we have trod so far.

    Latest news is here http://schools.norfolk.gov.uk/index....57&p=575,index

    with the latest News Letter.

  7. #22

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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    Hmm:

    Q. What about pay protection?
    A. We have always said we would put in place measures to help any staff whose salary is reduced as a result of MRS. From the effective date of 1 April 2007 if your pay is reduced your salary will be protected at its current level until 31 March 2010 on a ‘mark time’ basis. Effectively this means that your pay will be frozen at its current level until that date and you will not receive increments and cost of living pay awards. This will be in the final proposal that will be consulted upon when all the negotiations have concluded.
    So no increments ok fair enough but also no cost of living increases? wtf!!!

    Ben

  8. #23
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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    Sounds to me like a "nice" way of cutting your pay, instead of taking it away from you, they freeze your pay until the rest of the world catches up...

  9. #24
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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    Sickening is all that I've seen so far. The worst part is the not knowing what is going on. I'm lucky in that we have a Unison Shop Steward on site who is very up on Union matters.

  10. #25

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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    The trouble is that until the pay scales are decided and letters are sent out we will not know exactly where we stand.

    At this point the unions will ballot their members.

    Bit bloody late at that stage.

    Ben

  11. #26

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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    @Kyle

    It is not to do with different lea's getting same pay (that is national wage scheme something different).

    This is to do with everybody in same lea on same job getting same pay so if i worked as network manager that someone doing same role down road would get same job would be on the same grade.

    Russell

  12. #27

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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    The trouble is that I can see their point that if 2 people are employed in 2 different schools as a network manager both working 37 hours then they can both only do 37 hours work a week but one person may acheive more in that 37 hours with the way they work, the automation, systems they put in place.

    Ben

  13. #28
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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    Quote Originally Posted by plexer
    The trouble is that I can see their point that if 2 people are employed in 2 different schools as a network manager both working 37 hours then they can both only do 37 hours work a week but one person may acheive more in that 37 hours with the way they work, the automation, systems they put in place.
    Ben
    In theory two or more people in a similar job should do similar things hence the standardisation of pay scales. In practise we know this is not the case though but legally you could just do what you're paid to do, come in at the alloted hours and drop what you're doing and go home, to lunch etc. and pick it up later. Again we know that in our line of work this does not tend to happen.

    We have a caretaker that does just this. I once saw him carrying a box down a corridor and just set it down undelivered because his lunch break had started. That's an extreme case but theoreticaly it can be done.

    The changes in my LA are also being touted as an equal rights men v women thing but I have to admit that they seem to be saying 'OK a women earns x doing this job but a man earns x+1 so lets reduce the man to x and then it's fair' rather than getting to some common ground in between or even rasing the woman to x+1.

    HBJB

  14. #29

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    Re: Council Pay Reform

    Quote Originally Posted by plexer
    The trouble is that I can see their point that if 2 people are employed in 2 different schools as a network manager both working 37 hours then they can both only do 37 hours work a week but one person may acheive more in that 37 hours with the way they work, the automation, systems they put in place.

    Ben
    But many jobs are not performance related.

    This is the thing that teachers got all shirty about. It was expected that there was a minimum level that teachers should have ... students should not move backwards in their attainment ... however some kids do and if it is the teacher's fault they should be accountable. Likewise if a teacher is fantastic then they should get the rewards (UPS, AST, etc).

    There is not much like that for us.

    Business may give bonuses to staff for reaching targets but schools don't. It is expected that you will work to level x ... work below it and you get dropped via competency measures .... work higher and you might be able to justify a job evaluation and get upgraded (damn unlikely). The key is to get all NMs to have a decent wage to start with ... with decent levels of responsibility (no point saying a school network is crap and it is the NM's fault if they only get a budget af 3 farthings!)

    Yes, the unions should get involved now ...

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