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General Chat Thread, iPad Mini - Game Changer? in General; Originally Posted by aerospacemango Can you tell I love Android? You love Anne Boyd ? It's hard to hear you ...
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    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    Can you tell I love Android?
    You love Anne Boyd?

    It's hard to hear you over rabid fanbois.

  2. Thanks to X-13 from:

    aerospacemango (24th October 2012)

  3. #17
    rich_tech's Avatar
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    I felt sorry last night when I caught up on it all as I was offline until about 8pm, I know a few people, my sister being one of them, who just shelled out £479 about 6 weeks ago for a 32gb ipad (which she isnt unhappy about at all), but to me it seems that to supersede a device 7 months into its product cycle is a bit of a shabby thing to do I felt there, that probably could have been held off until at least a 12 month, it is a bit of a kick in the teeth I felt for people who do invest in their technology platform.

    It seems to me that apple are a bit lost in the post Jobs era, though I do admire them in a certain respect for their admittance after seeing that the smaller tablets indeed had a future and a bustling market, it is only right that they should want to get in to it, that being said, they are priced quite high in the market compared to the likes of the Nexus, so it will be interesting to see how it performs, no doubt there will be people who will leap at the chance to get their hands on a mini and with education it offers a cheaper alternative to the current iPad, so that cant be bad either.

    Personally for me, I will be going back to android after this contract is up on my iPhone and I will also be looking to get a Nexus 7 for myself around christmas I think, all going well, I would rather open source than ecosystem after seeing it first hand.

    That being said, the new iMac and Mac Mini I both find strangely impressive as well here.

  4. #18

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    This is it! If we can get one for every student it'll be an education revolution! I pushing for it here, though if I mention 'Apple' or 'iPads' one more time this term the head might just sack me on the spot!

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    This is it! If we can get one for every student it'll be an education revolution! I pushing for it here, though if I mention 'Apple' or 'iPads' one more time this term the head might just sack me on the spot!
    The men in white coats are on their way with a straight jacket for you... Technology is not going to revolutionise anything. Good teaching is. IWBs were supposed to revolutionise education. So were laptops for teachers. At one point 'PDAs' were too. Then netbooks... See a pattern?
    Last edited by localzuk; 24th October 2012 at 10:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    if I mention 'Apple' or 'iPads' one more time this term the head might just sack me on the spot!
    I know I would.

  7. #21

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The men in white coats are on their way with a straight jacket for you... Technology is not going to revolutionise anything. Good teaching is. IWBs were supposed to revolutionise education. So were laptops for teachers. At one point 'PDAs' were too. Then netbooks... See a pattern?
    Actually, I think tablets and IWBs are of the same ilk. Here every teacher has a laptop with a copy of powerpoint, every classroom has a projector and IWB, and it HAS dramatically changed how teachers teach - for the better. I'm convinced tablets on a 1:1 pupil ratio will have a similar effect. And this, the iPad Mini, is the device built just for that role.

    Besides my job is safe - I heard the Head of PE and Assistant Head talking in the corridor - "have you seen the new iPad mini, it's on my Christmas list"

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The men in white coats are on their way with a straight jacket for you... Technology is not going to revolutionise anything. Good teaching is. IWBs were supposed to revolutionise education. So were laptops for teachers. At one point 'PDAs' were too. Then netbooks... See a pattern?
    +infinity, the new blue hammer will revolutionize hammering etc.

    I have a deal with the staff, if they want to extoll the virtues I get a rebuttal. Hardware now has to make it on it's merits rather than the colour of gloss used.

  9. #23

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Besides my job is safe - I heard the Head of PE and Assistant Head talking in the corridor - "have you seen the new iPad mini, it's on my Christmas list"
    For personal use.

    For education they're too expensive and [opinion] not fit for purpose. There are other things that can do the job better and are cheaper.

    Plus, tablets aren't all that good at creating things. [Also opinion]

  10. #24

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    I'd like to quote Roger Daltrey at this point....

    "Meet the new boss, Same as the old boss"

    Nothing changes..... Apple fans will rant and rave......Droid fans will extole the virtues of an open source system. The world will turn.

    As an Android fan, I'm thoroughly sick of the "going round in circles" arguments. Opinions are indeed like a*seholes....everyone has one, but they're all full of sh*t!

    Why would anyone buy this new iPad mini? It's all about the image!

  11. #25

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Actually, I think tablets and IWBs are of the same ilk. Here every teacher has a laptop with a copy of powerpoint, every classroom has a projector and IWB, and it HAS dramatically changed how teachers teach - for the better. I'm convinced tablets on a 1:1 pupil ratio will have a similar effect. And this, the iPad Mini, is the device built just for that role.

    Besides my job is safe - I heard the Head of PE and Assistant Head talking in the corridor - "have you seen the new iPad mini, it's on my Christmas list"
    IWBs didn't change anything at all. Proper interactive use of them is rare in my experience - especially in secondary schools. Can you safely say that the £1k+ per board was worth it in every room? I've got nothing against projectors, they have made life different in teaching (whether its any better is a different matter). Again, laptops - what's changed? Staff marked and updated markbooks before, they did planning on paper etc... Now they just type it instead.

    Interestingly, Peru has basically said their country wide 1:1 OLPC project is an abject failure - it hasn't made any difference to education at all, for a cool cost of $225m. The reason? They just dumped laptops on everyone. No integration into curriculum etc... - ie. it was technology first, education second.

    If someone can show me a proper thought out curriculum and a way to properly use ipads in a 1:1 system, and also show an increase in outcomes, then I may change my view, but until then I'll continue to see it the same - people being amazed by shiny things.

    Can you say that the cost, which here would be about £138k just for the devices, add in repairs, replacements, software, wireless network etc... and you're looking at £250k, is worth it? They still can't do everything you need to do in a school, so you'd need to maintain some systems to deal with them (admin, media related stuff, word processing, etc...).

    Add in the fact that they'll have about a 3 year life expectancy at most, with a non-replaceable battery, and you're then spending £250k every 3 years. On top of a slightly reduced existing spend.

    Or would that money be better spent on 20 TAs, or 8 or so new teachers?
    Last edited by localzuk; 24th October 2012 at 10:43 AM.

  12. Thanks to localzuk from:

    SYNACK (24th October 2012)

  13. #26

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    Why would anyone buy this new iPad mini? It's all about the image!
    <bangsHeadOnDesk>No No No No No</bangsHeadOnDesk>

    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    For education they're too expensive
    I wrote a business plan for the head, adds about £100k per year to the ICT budget for a school of 850 pupils (assuming 3 year replacement cycle and buying 1 year group at a time). That was for the iPad 2, the mini is cheaper. When a schools budget is a couple of million a year, finding £100k if it's the right thing isn't that difficult. It's up to the head where his priorities lay.

    and [opinion] not fit for purpose.
    An argument I could never win until at the very least every pupil in 1 year group had one. Then I think people will be able to see their benefits and how to best make use of them.

    There are other things that can do the job better and are cheaper.
    Like?

    Plus, tablets aren't all that good at creating things. [Also opinion]
    Our ICT, Art, Media, Drama, and Music teacher would all disagree with you. We have 10 iPads, one for each department, for teacher to experiment with. Just today I passed some students wondering around the school creating a video with the ICT department one. And I'm having to slow the music teacher down somewhat - she wants to dump all her PC's for iPad with Garageband, and is looking to buy guitar adapters for her current department one.


    To my mind the iPad mini is (almost) the right price, the right size, and the app store has the right apps available. No other device I can find matches the form factor with the price and, more importantly, the range of quality apps.

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Interestingly, Peru has basically said their country wide 1:1 OLPC project is an abject failure - it hasn't made any difference to education at all, for a cool cost of $225m. The reason? They just dumped laptops on everyone. No integration into curriculum etc... - ie. it was technology first, education second.

    If someone can show me a proper thought out curriculum and a way to properly use ipads in a 1:1 system, and also show an increase in outcomes, then I may change my view, but until then I'll continue to see it the same - people being amazed by shiny things.

    Can you say that the cost, which here would be about £138k just for the devices, add in repairs, replacements, software, wireless network etc... and you're looking at £250k, is worth it? They still can't do everything you need to do in a school, so you'd need to maintain some systems to deal with them (admin, media related stuff, word processing, etc...).
    Which is why we've started from the other end, by giving devices in limited numbers to staff first. It's not my job to write their schemes of work! I can honestly see the benefits of the device if used properly. I honestly don't think the benefits can be realised until you are on a 1:1 ratio. I do think it would be money well spent, I think projectors and laptops are money well spent (I may agree with you on IWB's). Time will tell, and ultimately it's the heads decision and his vision for the school. I'm just recommending one option because I believe it is the right one and it is my job to make these recommendations.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Which is why we've started from the other end, by giving devices in limited numbers to staff first. It's not my job to write their schemes of work! I can honestly see the benefits of the device if used properly. I honestly don't think the benefits can be realised until you are on a 1:1 ratio. I do think it would be money well spent, I think projectors and laptops are money well spent (I may agree with you on IWB's). Time will tell, and ultimately it's the heads decision and his vision for the school. I'm just recommending one option because I believe it is the right one and it is my job to make these recommendations.
    So, using your figures of £100k a year costs, you think that ipads will give better results than say an extra 3 or so teachers, or 8 TAs?

  16. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Like?


    Our ICT, Art, Media, Drama, and Music teacher would all disagree with you. We have 10 iPads, one for each department, for teacher to experiment with. Just today I passed some students wondering around the school creating a video with the ICT department one. And I'm having to slow the music teacher down somewhat - she wants to dump all her PC's for iPad with Garageband, and is looking to buy guitar adapters for her current department one.


    To my mind the iPad mini is (almost) the right price, the right size, and the app store has the right apps available. No other device I can find matches the form factor with the price and, more importantly, the range of quality apps.
    Nexus 7? Asus Eee Transformer? Windows tablets? If you're running an apple network, iDevices would be good. Windows networks however...

    When I say "creating things" I mean text-wise. Art-wise it's just a fancy sketchpad. Music-wise it's a fancy keyboard. I've always found it awkward to type on tablets, unless they have good handwriting recognition.

    As for apps... What's wrong with Android apps? A lot of the apps I've seen are multiplatform, so they're on iTunes[?] and the Google Store. [I've never looked at Windows apps, so I can't comment on them.]
    Last edited by X-13; 24th October 2012 at 11:04 AM.

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    There is still no proper stylus either. Yes, they can be useful in conjunction, if you want precision of intent as opposed to blunt grunts of intent from a fingertip.

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