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General Chat Thread, Islam and depictions of Muhammad in General; @ pcstru - I'm done, I cannot make sense of you any more. On the one hand you criticize me ...
  1. #121

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    @pcstru - I'm done, I cannot make sense of you any more. On the one hand you criticize me for stating my opinions then not backing them up with evidence (they are my opinions, I have provided examples and reasons, apparently not enough for you), then you go ahead and have a go because I disagree with your opinions ("I make points as strongly as I feel is warranted. I don't precede every sentence with "In my opinion", "I think" etc, because apart from anything I write quite obviously being my opinion, it; a) quickly gets dull as a writing style and b) I prefer to treat readers as intelligent enough to already have figured that out." - exactly my point!). I suspect from your responses to me and others, you just want an argument and I can't be bothered with that.

    Islam and depictions of Muhammad-22945743.jpg

  2. #122


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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    When the entire wave of 'protests' has lead to deaths and violence, then the right to protest is diminished. Much like with animal rights protest, a bunch of illegal stuff happened, and therefore the entire movement came under scrutiny.
    Guilt by association? Isn't that another accusation being levelled at protesters who are attacking symbols of western power because they are guilty by association? Surely, we can stick to judging people by their own actions and refrain from tarring them with acts committed by others.
    Also, your comments are kinda odd, as none of us have said they shouldn't have the right to protest, just that their protests are, well, dumb.
    "so why protest there? No other reason than an excuse to start trouble IMO." - my post was aimed at the "no other reason".

  3. #123
    januttall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    What I don't get is the assumption that an American film maker or Danish comic book writer is = to the whole American country or entire Danish State. Its stupidity in the extreme to assume one voice speaks for us all.
    Surely this apples to all things religions included. i know hundred's of people and every ones views are different, people understand or miss interpret things differently to each other. but shurley spreading understanding about something should always be taken over violence. violence is never the correct option what ever the circumstance. well unless your being beaten up. unfortunately people seem to fast to jump into a killing spree because some one has upset them, is it me or is this ludicrous i wouldn't declare war on a continent because some one in it scratched my car or stuck a finger up at me.

    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    thats not just a relegious thing the "news" is almost all bad stuff happening 3 teenagers shot in pub brawl is much much more likely to make page 1 than 3 teenagers help rebuild old peoples houses after flooding
    I Agree, we need far more positive stories in the news. its currently the place to go to get down and distressed. maybe we should campaign for more positive stories on the news.
    Last edited by januttall; 24th September 2012 at 10:13 AM.

  4. #124


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    The thing i don't get is, yes the film was bad, it was made by an amateur with the view of causing offence and stirring up trouble, and yes the comic book drawings of Mohammed were distasteful, although they do the same thing with Jesus and there is never an uproar, but the story a few years back when if i remember rightly a British teacher in Oman let the pupils choose a name for a stuffed bear and because the name was Mohammed she got arrested and deported. That's a massive over reaction to something not meant to cause offence just because its against their religious beliefs.

    By that reasoning just because the catholic church is against contraception should they be up in arms against everyone who uses it? because its against their faith but other people do it? Should catholic politicians put prices on peoples heads for using a contraceptive? I know the Pakistani minister was condemned by his own government for that, but why should somthing thats against your faith be punishable by death for someone who doesn't share the faith. It's not a international law.

    Although saying all that i think the guy the made the film needs a good old slap.

  5. #125

    Gatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    Its stupidity in the extreme to assume one voice speaks for us all.
    Unless you are The Borg...

  6. #126
    januttall's Avatar
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    I agree with you. in many country's around the world the Christians are put to death just for being Christians still in this day and age without antagonizing anyone no court no jury just executed.
    Mercy killing's ? where's the mercy in killing some one for not believing what you do or changing what they believe.

    What a sorry twisted world we live in.

  7. #127

    witch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by januttall View Post
    I agree with you. in many country's around the world the Christians are put to death just for being Christians still in this day and age without antagonizing anyone no court no jury just executed.
    .
    Evidence?

  8. #128

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    Guilt by association? Isn't that another accusation being levelled at protesters who are attacking symbols of western power because they are guilty by association? Surely, we can stick to judging people by their own actions and refrain from tarring them with acts committed by others.
    I did write a long reply to this, but then lost it, so I'll try again. Human rights are qualified usually, freedom of expression and freedom of association are both balanced by a need to prevent people doing things like shouting 'bomb' in a cinema, and people don't have a right to associate with terrorists...

    So, as prior protests on this matter, by people with the same beliefs as this set of protesters have lead to violence and deaths, then new protests come under increased scrutiny, and increased restrictions. That's the way of the law, and the way of having both rights and responsibilities.

    "so why protest there? No other reason than an excuse to start trouble IMO." - my post was aimed at the "no other reason".
    And I agree with that poster. The protests are based entirely on flawed thinking. They are committing idolatry by their own religious texts, they are protesting in weird places (Birmingham? what relevance has that got to a film made by one American loon?), their religious texts don't apply to non-believers, so why should non-believers pay any attention to it?

    So, the reasons do come down to them seeming to want to cause trouble. Are we not entitled to our own opinion, or do the freedom of speech rights not apply to us?

  9. #129
    januttall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    Evidence?
    How much evidence do you want.
    Shocking Figures Reveal 105,000 Christians Martyred Each Year
    Persecution.com
    https://barnabasfund.org/UK/News/News-analysis/
    A Christian martyr every 5 minutes: The Church of England Newspaper, June 17, 2011 p 1. « Conger
    there are a lot more sites available if you want me to link to them.
    Just Because its not reported in our media it dose not mean it 's not there.

    ANY VIEWS OR OPINIONS ON EXTERNAL SITES I LINK TO ARE NOT MY OWN VIEWS OR OPINIONS!!
    Last edited by januttall; 24th September 2012 at 01:37 PM.

  10. #130

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    The straw doesn't break the camels back.

    The 10,000 straws underneath it do.

    The media in the west want us to think its all about a video. Its not.

  11. #131

    witch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by januttall View Post
    How much evidence do you want.
    Shocking Figures Reveal 105,000 Christians Martyred Each Year
    Persecution.com
    https://barnabasfund.org/UK/News/News-analysis/
    A Christian martyr every 5 minutes: The Church of England Newspaper, June 17, 2011 p 1. « Conger
    there are a lot more sites available if you want me to link to them.
    Just Because its not reported in our media it dose not mean it 's not there.
    Your first and third examples are the same and whilst the article claims the number of "Christian Martyrs" it doesnt explain how they got to these numbers. People are certainly being killed in civil wars, quite possibly because of the group they belong to, but I dispute that makes them a "Christian Martyr". During the civil war in Yugoslavia, Croats and Serbs, both ostensibly Christian, were killing each other - so surely that means there were Christian Martyrs on BOTH sides??? Christians killing Christians?
    I think the use of the word 'Martyr' is sensationalist and unnecessary.

  12. #132
    januttall's Avatar
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    there are people in Egypt and siria, Iraq, china etc and all over the globe being killed just for being christian. not by other Christians. by governments and other faiths. give me time and i will give you more links. im suposed to be working not sending links to news story's.

    [LINK REMOVED] just one more of many

    though sadly if you don't believe me it dose not matter how much evidence i provide you will always argue the opposite. (don't live blind folded to or by events you will miss something important and your view though important will be obscured )

    and very often our media misrepresents things or neglects to tell us everything

    ANY VIEWS OR OPINIONS ON EXTERNAL SITES I LINK TO ARE NOT MY OWN VIEWS OR OPINIONS!!
    Last edited by januttall; 24th September 2012 at 01:38 PM. Reason: CONTENT ON EXTERNAL LINK NOT CHECKED IN ADVANCE OF POSTING

  13. #133

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by januttall View Post
    there are people in Egypt and siria, Iraq, china etc and all over the globe being killed just for being christian. not by other Christians. by governments and other faiths. give me time and i will give you more links. im suposed to be working not sending links to news story's.

    Persecution of Christians | Persecuted Churches - UK and Worldwide just one more of many

    though sadly if you don't believe me it dose not matter how much evidence i provide you will always argue the opposite. (don't live blind folded to or by events you will miss something important and your view though important will be obscured )
    It's also very hard to take seriously a website which, on it's opening page, contains the line:

    THE VIDEO BELOW SHOWS ISLAM IN ITS TRUE LIGHT! (Courtesy: The Martyrs' Cry). Please be patient when downloading.
    I agree with you that you can't walk around blind folded to the truth and I firmly believe that the media in every country is controlled so that we only hear what they want us to hear, but that last website you linked to stinks of religious hatred.

  14. #134

    witch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by januttall View Post
    there are people in Egypt and siria, Iraq, china etc and all over the globe being killed just for being christian. not by other Christians. by governments and other faiths. give me time and i will give you more links. im suposed to be working not sending links to news story's.

    Persecution of Christians | Persecuted Churches - UK and Worldwide just one more of many
    I don't dispute that Christians are being killed by other faiths but there is often more than just religion involved - would like to see numbers of people killed as it were cold, just for being Christian - with no wars etc involved.
    I didnt actually say I didnt believe you -neither was I arguing the opposite to what you were saying - you do not need to be quite so defensive and a little insulting. Especially given that it was me that earlier in this thread mentioned other views not being reported.
    I dont disbelieve you at all - it is just that the articles you specified are very 'sensationalist' in their outlook - much like the "muslims hate the west" articles. They also lump together all deaths of Christians without mentioning possible other reasons

  15. #135


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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I agree with you that you can't walk around blind folded to the truth and I firmly believe that the media in every country is controlled so that we only hear what they want us to hear, but that last website you linked to stinks of religious hatred.
    Ah the beauty of the internet, if you need a reference for your claim that polkadotted elephants are getting oppressed by the Russian federation of Umpa Lumpa impersonators, there's probably a website for that, if not make one!

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