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General Chat Thread, Islam and depictions of Muhammad in General; Originally Posted by Theblacksheep The media in the west want us to think its all about a video. Its not. ...
  1. #136

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    The media in the west want us to think its all about a video. Its not.
    What is it about then?

  2. #137

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamH View Post
    Ah the beauty of the internet, if you need a reference for your claim that polkadotted elephants are getting oppressed by the Russian federation of Umpa Lumpa impersonators, there's probably a website for that, if not make one!
    Exactly! The problem seems to lie in that people feel a need to believe in an absolute source, when it's actually extremely rare to find a truly subjective report and even then it's usually best to read various sources from both sides and understand that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

  3. #138
    januttall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    It's also very hard to take seriously a website which, on it's opening page, contains the line:



    I agree with you that you can't walk around blind folded to the truth and I firmly believe that the media in every country is controlled so that we only hear what they want us to hear, but that last website you linked to stinks of religious hatred.
    I DIDNT NOTACE THIS! i just quickly serched as my boss was watching me3

    and im sorry witch i was feeling a little rushed to provide evidence. and i wasent speaking to you when i posted that it was just a general comment.


    ANY VIEWS OR OPINIONS ON EXTERNAL SITES I LINK TO ARE NOT MY OWN VIEWS OR OPINIONS!!
    Last edited by januttall; 24th September 2012 at 01:38 PM.

  4. #139

    witch's Avatar
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    @januttall Please watch that video- it is appalling in its breadth of religious hatred
    I do believe that Christians are being targeted around the world - but to excuse the Christian Crusades on the basis that they were a long time ago is naive to say the least.
    And to almost state that all muslims are terrorists is just beyond belief
    To make a "thing' about Muslims believing that they are the only way to God - well, that is what Catholics believe too - they are the "one true faith".
    As always though, I would point to the actuall religious texts - have you read the Qu'ran?
    Yes, religious war is allowed but no muslim should kill women or children - ever.

  5. #140

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    Yes, religious war is allowed but no muslim should kill women or children - ever.
    Christianity has something similar, I think. But, they can kill boys. [Women and girls are kept for reasons I'm not getting in to.]


    That's in the Old Testiment though, so I don't think many still follow that.

  6. #141


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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    to excuse the Christian Crusades on the basis that they were a long time ago is naive to say the least.
    Totally agree. I absolute hate Germans the Nazi scum... and the French... and the Scots...


    Time heals all. We fought the Germans a relatively short time ago but my opinion of someone who hates Germans based on a war which was over before they were even born... well lets just say they don't come high on my Christmas card list. Why is religion any different, or do you still hate Germans/Scots/anyone we have had a conflict with?

    Yes learn from the past, but my opinion is anything done (certainly 500 years ago) in the past should stay in the past.
    Last edited by j17sparky; 24th September 2012 at 12:53 PM.

  7. #142

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post
    Totally agree. I absolute hate Germans the Nazi scum... and the French... and the Scots...
    What is it with people around here?!

    Clearly, @witch meant that we should not excuse the Crusades just because they happened so long ago, just as we should not excuse the Nazis, what she definitely did not say was we should hate all Christians for what happened! (as is the comparison you're apparently making with the Nazis/Gemrans)

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    What is it with people around here?!

    Clearly, @witch meant that we should not excuse the Crusades just because they happened so long ago, just as we should not excuse the Nazis, what she definitely did not say was we should hate all Christians for what happened! (as is the comparison you're apparently making with the Nazis/Gemrans)
    I think his comment was laced with sarcasm to be fair.

  9. #144

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamH View Post
    I think his comment was laced with sarcasm to be fair.
    I understand the sarcasm, but the implication was that @witch was suggesting we should hate Christians for the Crusades, at least that's how it looked to me, @j17sparky correct me if I'm wrong...

    EDIT I suppose I should add that if that is indeed what witch meant (which I seriously doubt!) then I disagree
    Last edited by LosOjos; 24th September 2012 at 12:56 PM.

  10. #145


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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    I understand the sarcasm, but the implication was that @witch was suggesting we should hate Christians for the Crusades, at least that's how it looked to me, @j17sparky correct me if I'm wrong...
    No, basically what relevance does the crusades have on today? To me Witch's comment reads "it doesn't matter that the crusades happened years ago, we should remember what happened [and let it influence today]", which I think is ridiculous. "Because it happened a long time ago" is a perfect "excuse". A lot of unsavoury things happened in the past, we learn from that but certainly don't hold their ancestors actions against them. Slavery happened a long time ago but if non-white people remember that for the next 500 year what chance does this world have of ever getting rid of racism.
    Last edited by j17sparky; 24th September 2012 at 01:01 PM.

  11. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post
    No, basically what relevance does the crusades have on today? To me Witch's comment reads "it doesn't matter that the crusades happened years ago, we should remember what happened [and let it influence today]", which I think is ridiculous. "Because it happened a long time ago" is a perfect "excuse". Slavery happened a long time ago but if non-white people remember that for the next 500 year what chance does this world have of ever getting rid of racism.
    I understand what you're saying, but witch was talking about a video posted earlier, what she said was in context of the content of that video/website

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    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post
    No, basically what relevance does the crusades have on today? To me Witch's comment reads "it doesn't matter that the crusades happened years ago, we should remember what happened [and let it influence today]", which I think is ridiculous. "Because it happened a long time ago" is a perfect "excuse". A lot of unsavoury things happened in the past, we learn from that but certainly don't hold their ancestors actions against them. Slavery happened a long time ago but if non-white people remember that for the next 500 year what chance does this world have of ever getting rid of racism.
    I don't think it should be forgotten, it happened, it was a very dark time for Europe and Christianity, in the same way that people wont change if we don't forget about it we need to learn from our past to ensure it doesn't happen again.

    But modern Christians and Europeans shouldn't be penalized for it now, just like Germans even those alive during the war shouldn't all be penalized for what a few of their countrymen did.

    Basically the way i see it is : forget? no, forgive* yes.

    * i mean the decedents of, not the actual perpetrators
    Last edited by LiamH; 24th September 2012 at 01:23 PM.

  13. #148
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    Naturally everyone has differing opinions and views, is it time to close this thread as it's going round and round?

  14. Thanks to kernewek-sam from:

    andyturpie (24th September 2012)

  15. #149

    witch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post
    No, basically what relevance does the crusades have on today? To me Witch's comment reads "it doesn't matter that the crusades happened years ago, we should remember what happened [and let it influence today]", which I think is ridiculous.
    @j17sparky Missing my point -and in a particularly unfair way - nowhere did I say we should hate anyone for anything.
    I was particularly relating it to the video which specifically mentions the crusades and pretty much says they were OK because they were a long time ago. Which of course, they werent.
    On another point - the video mentions jizya as being a tax specifically on Christians, and whilst this is true, in paying it Christians are then exempt from military service and do not have to pay a tithe from their incomes as muslims do.
    I am trying (and failing, obviously) to point out that all sides are biased and you can slant data anyway you want to show what you want it to show.

  16. #150


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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    @j17sparky Missing my point -and in a particularly unfair way - nowhere did I say we should hate anyone for anything.
    I was particularly relating it to the video which specifically mentions the crusades and pretty much says they were OK because they were a long time ago. Which of course, they werent.
    Does it? I've watched the video twice but didn't see that. At the beginning do you mean?

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