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Gaming Thread, Mists of pandaria in Fun Stuff; Originally Posted by Geoff If you aren't registered on enjin, you can't read the guild forums, if you can't read ...
  1. #121

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    If you aren't registered on enjin, you can't read the guild forums, if you can't read the guild forums you are unaware of important guild information. This is a situation we don't allow to exist. Hence applying via the website is a requirement for guild membership.

    It's impossible to tell if a new member fits in the guild or indeed if the guild fits well with them otherwise.

    We've tried (or at least looked at in detail) most looting systems, (ironically there's a full reasoned discussion of this on the guild forums), and getting the balance right between fairness (perceived or actual) and maximising benefit to the team as a whole is an interesting and complex problem to solve. I'm open to suggestions ofc.
    Guild news can be done in-game. [I think, I know it could be done about a year ago.]

    I get the trial period thing, it just rubs me up the wrong way... WoW is first and foremost [in my mind] a game. Trial periods make it sound too serious and sort-of like a job.

    Need before greed was a decent loot system [when I played before.] Couple that with shunning the bad players [Bad as in horrible, not inexperienced] and it's cool. Handing over gear to someone who's just going to sell it, when someone else needs it, based on arbitrary rules and feelings isn't cool at all.

    For instance, you have no idea how much effort another player is putting in. They could be really trying their hardest, but can't quite get it.

    However, I don't know if this has been changed or removed.
    Last edited by X-13; 2nd October 2012 at 01:54 PM.

  2. #122


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    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    You can ride a pony in the DK starter area on the horse hijacking quest. And they get an undead horse mount.

    The starter area also shows people getting resurrected with magic and having a concious mind. They don't get very far if their first words aren't along the lines of "Yay for Lich King" though....
    Ah, I remember my Tauren DK on his pony mount.. still have the screenshot somewhere on the world wide webs.
    I never used the death charger too much though, I instantly bought winged steed of the ebon blade and used that as a ground mount from 60+ , bony gryphony goodness!

    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    Guild news can be done in-game. [I think, I know it could be done about a year ago.]

    I get the trial period thing, it just rubs me up the wrong way... WoW is first and foremost [in my mind] a game. Trial periods make it sound too serious and sort-of like a job.

    Need before greed was a decent loot system [when I played before.] Couple that with shunning the bad players [Bad as in horrible, not inexperienced] and it's cool. Handing over gear to someone who's just going to sell it, when someone else needs it, based on arbitrary rules and feelings isn't cool at all.

    For instance, you have no idea how much effort another player is putting in. They could be really trying their hardest, but can't quite get it.

    However, I don't know if this has been changed or removed.
    Guild news can indeed still be done in game, but with a character limit, much better on a forum IMO. I use Enjin for SWTOR and Secret World and I've never had an issue, nice little site ^^

    As for the loot system, Need before Greed doesn't really cut it in a raid, you might need one item from one boss, and one from another, if you win both, well, it's not unfair, but how are the others gonna feel?

    Alot of guilds run off of some kind of DKP derivative now, I believe SK uses it as a starting point, not too sure. It basically gives points for attendance and raid kills, the more points you have, the higher priority you have on rolls. But rolls will then reduce your points, and you'll drop down the priorities until you gain more points. Nice little system.
    Last edited by DMcGuigan; 2nd October 2012 at 02:00 PM. Reason: X-13'd, missing punctuation everywhar!

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMcGuigan View Post
    I never used the death charger too much though, I instantly bought winged steed of the ebon blade and used that as a ground mount from 60+ , bony gryphony goodness!
    I'm doing the same. [Until I can find someone to recruit... Then I can transform into a Netherwing.]

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    We run a +1 system.

    If its needed for main spec you roll on it, winner gets the item and +1, if another item drops you can roll on it but if the winner has more points than the 2nd highest it goes to them.

    So for example Bob and Tim are both agi leather users, somthing drops and they both roll, Bob wins so gets the item and a +1 against him, next boss another agi leather item drops, both roll again and Bob is a lucky mofo and wins the roll, but because hes +1 and Tim is 0 Tim gets the item and a +1, so they are both even on one point.

    It means everyone gets a shot and if somone is after 1 item they tend to pass on small upgrades to save on having points for the roll they need.

    If nobody wants it for main spec its a roll for offspec, no points added, then open roll for disenchant.

    BOE items not needed for main spec are open roll, recipes dropped must be learnt on the spot or its put in the guild bank for purchase at 1/3 AH price.

    Special drops for legendary are alternated if 2 people are on the quest.

    Works quite well for us but we all get along well.

    Edit : should have added its reset after the raid. We had 3 raids a week on DS, 1 main(heroic), 1 alt/main's (regular) who could make it, and another alt/learning raid where we went a bit slower and explained fights so people could learn what to do
    Last edited by LiamH; 2nd October 2012 at 02:14 PM.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamH View Post
    So for example Bob and Tim are both agi leather users, somthing drops and they both roll, Bob wins so gets the item and a +1 against him, next boss another agi leather item drops, both roll again and Bob is a lucky mofo and wins the roll, but because hes +1 and Tim is 0 Tim gets the item and a +1, so they are both even on one point.
    That's fine when 2 people both need it.

    But if it's class specific, BoE stuff and only one of then can actually use it... [Bob is a Feral Druid, Tim is a Rogue]

    That's why I liked need before greed. If I'm the only Rogue/DK in the raid, how the bejesus is it fair that Warrior tanks keep stealing equipment I'm after just so they can sell it. I've also had one try to sell it to me afterwards. "Oh, this thing I can't use and just got for free? 100k gold."


    I've also had people assigning drops based on who they like more. The in-build roll mechanic stops things like that. [RNG doesn't care if the guild leader is your friend.]


    Quote Originally Posted by DMcGuigan View Post
    As for the loot system, Need before Greed doesn't really cut it in a raid, you might need one item from one boss, and one from another, if you win both, well, it's not unfair, but how are the others gonna feel?
    Depends on what sort of people you have in your guild/group.

    I've managed to outroll someone on a couple of things in a row, but there's never been a problem. We just congratulate each other for good rolls, lament over lost drops and then try again in the knowledge that the other person already has their stuff and won't be rolling for it.
    Last edited by X-13; 2nd October 2012 at 02:23 PM. Reason: A WILD REPLY APPEARS!

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    That's fine when 2 people both need it.

    But if it's class specific, BoE stuff and only one of then can actually use it... [Bob is a Feral Druid, Tim is a Rogue]

    That's why I liked need before greed. If I'm the only Rogue/DK in the raid, how the bejesus is it fair that Warrior tanks keep stealing equipment I'm after just so they can sell it. I've also had one try to sell it to me afterwards. "Oh, this thing I can't use and just got for free? 100k gold."
    If anyone in a half decent raid group is caught selling BoE items they got with DKP i would think they would very quickly not have a raid group anymore.

  7. #127


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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    That's fine when 2 people both need it.

    But if it's class specific, BoE stuff and only one of then can actually use it... [Bob is a Feral Druid, Tim is a Rogue]

    That's why I liked need before greed. If I'm the only Rogue/DK in the raid, how the bejesus is it fair that Warrior tanks keep stealing equipment I'm after just so they can sell it. I've also had one try to sell it to me afterwards. "Oh, this thing I can't use and just got for free? 100k gold."


    I've also had people assigning drops based on who they like more. The in-build roll mechanic stops things like that. [RNG doesn't care if the guild leader is your friend.]
    Heh, corrupt loot council. Seen that quite a few times, not the most fun thing to be on the losing end of.

    As for Valentine's comment, I totally agree, a lot of issues would be eliminated in any half-decent raid guild now, PUGs, not so much, but most decent raid leaders wouldn't put up for any of that ninja disease that goes around.

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentine View Post
    If anyone in a half decent raid group is caught selling BoE items they got with DKP i would think they would very quickly not have a raid group anymore.
    Good to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by DMcGuigan View Post
    Heh, corrupt loot council. Seen that quite a few times, not the most fun thing to be on the losing end of.
    Indeed. Not fun at all.


    Also, I should make it known, any comments I'm making are based on when I played over a year ago. I have no idea what's changed. [I even had to get Geoff to help me out with my DK...]

  9. #129

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    At least now you know why my guilds rules are the way they are

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    At least now you know why my guilds rules are the way they are
    Not really. It's all opinion based.

    "Effort Points (EP) quantify the effort each member put towards the goals. "

    How does anyone, apart from me, know how much effort I've put in?

    Plus, and I've just seen this, mandatory add-ons? How about no? I'm not installing things because some random guy told me to.

    Especially as I've had add-ons that made it a nightmare to tell what's going on.

    And so what if I haven't got voice-chat? Hold back and type it out. That way, you know it's not getting cut up by lag. [AC online... So much lag.]

    Emergency potions = 2x AH price? No. Generally, I'll drop things I don't need but are useful in there. I gave it for free, don't even think about trying to make money off of it.

    Le EDIT: I'm not trying to start an argument... I just don't agree with a lot of these requirements. They scream of people taking a game way to seriously.
    Last edited by X-13; 2nd October 2012 at 02:40 PM.

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    Nothing in EPGP is opinion based. EP is all quantitative and will be given for specific things like being on time for raids, spending time raiding and possibly things like providing the raid with extra materials such as flasks/potions etc. Raiders really should just be very happy a good DKP system is being used, trust me when i say it is a hell of a lot of work for the raid leaders to try and make looting fair for all.

    The other things are standard raid requirements too. If you want things more casual try the LFRaid system which is actually very good now and has automatic distribution of loot so there can be no arguments

  12. #132

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    All of these are explained on the guild forums, I'm not going to paste those posts here as they run to multiple pages in total.

    1. EP point awards are quantified. The are awarded for obvious easily identifiable things like killing bosses, turning up 15min early, staying for the whole raid, etc.
    2. The only addons we require on the RT are some kind of boss mod and the epgp loot addon.
    3. We require you to be able to listen to voice chat, not speak (unless you are in a role in the raid that requires it, such as main tank). Many of our guildies don't have English as their first language so they can speak/listen a lot better than type/read. It's also quicker, some people like their raiding to be efficient if they can only devote a small amount of time to it per week.
    4. Raid consumable prices are the way they are to stop people sponging of other peoples good nature, it's happened to us in the past and it's caused drama. We tried the carrot, we're now using a stick.

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    CAM
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    If you go hardcore end game raiding guild you will see this stuff. The relaxed guilds just need/greed and let anyone they trust who is raiding in the bank but they take a fair bit of time getting through the content and getting organised.

    I usually see a threat meter and a boss warnings mod as minimum in a lot of raid groups at all levels too. It's more to help keep things organised if everyone is playing with the same bat.

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    Threat meters are fairly pointless now as well. Due to the threat changes a while ago if a tank so much as breathes near a mob he will have so much threat a DPS will never catch up. I actually hate this change in general, there were so many bosses especially in vanilla content that required careful threat management, was fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    I usually see a threat meter and a boss warnings mod as minimum in a lot of raid groups at all levels too. It's more to help keep things organised if everyone is playing with the same bat.
    Tbh, I haven't played in a long time. And my last guild was super casual to the point of incompetence.

    I've asked Geoff if I can join a raid/dungeon to see it in action. [I should have mentioned I'd grab addons and stuff if need be.]

    But this is getting wildly offtopic. This was supposed to be about kung-fu pandas and what not.

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