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Gaming Thread, PS4 Details begin to emerge in Fun Stuff; ...
  1. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    Surely this cannot be realistic? Are they looking for the quickest, easiest, way out of the console market?
    If Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all agree behind closed doors to prevent secondhand games being played on their respective consoles, gamers will not be able to switch to a competitors console.

    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    Why would you take backwards compatibility out?
    It increases costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    A PS4 with a quad-core chip and Southern Islands (7750?) GPU would outperform a similarly specced PC though, certainly after developers have got to grips with it, because developers can code on bare-metal for consoles where everything is identical.
    Even if the PS4 has a 7970-class GPU, it will be old news compared to the hardware that PC gamers will have access to when the console is released in two years time (late 2013 or thereabouts). If it supports the 4k2k HDTVs being released next year (the 79xx GPUs already do), game developers will primarily design their games for 1080p displays since that is what almost everyone has today.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    Ultimately, though, we are just at a point of diminishing returns wrt photorealism.
    There's still a way to go before we reach the point of diminishing returns... How close are we to truly photorealistic, real-time games? « Ars Technica

    The necessary bounds for true photorealism are set by the physical limits of the human eye, Sweeney explained, which can only process the equivalent of a 30 megapixel image at about 70 frames per second. Given current trends, monitor display technology should be able to handle that level of detail for a small area in just a few more generations. Projecting that level of detail across a larger, 90 degree field of vision would take an 8000x6000 pixel display, which is still quite far off but "within sight," Sweeney said.

    This level of detail sets an upper limit on the amount of memory and raw processing power we'd need to depict a "good enough" photorealistic scene, Sweeney says. That limit is about 50 times greater than the polygon-processing capabilities of today's top-end hardware, meaning it's at least two generations away.
    While Epic's Unreal Engine 3 demo is impressive, you can still tell it's a game.

    Last edited by Arthur; 2nd April 2012 at 12:50 PM.

  2. #17

    Theblacksheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Like revoking hardware features, killing backward compatability and storing then loosing hundreds of thousands of bits of user sensitive info all in one go thanks to shocking security on their compulseraly collected data store?
    Backwards compatibility never worked properly, even with hardware. In software lots of titles failed to work it also wasnt a great loss. Not everything on the 360 is BC and the wii has removed from modern hardware.

    Revoking hardware features? 2 extra USB ports and a card reader? Not enough to write home about. The Slim is a better console for it. My orig 20gb (500gb) PS3 still has linux and still works well, except for the badly implemented BC and linux. Outside of the PS2, where else could you use linux on a recent mainstream console?


    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    Are they looking for the quickest, easiest, way out of the console market? Why would you take backwards compatibility out?
    Why would you implement it in a new console when you're current consoles don't support it and nor will other vendors?

    Try trading FM2012 on PC. I couldnt even play FM2012 until Steam said so, despite having the media 2 days before release. Many PC games cannot be traded secondhand now. Many console game require an additional online activation (and fee) now. This is just one extra step that will be in the new MS and Sony consoles.
    Last edited by Theblacksheep; 2nd April 2012 at 01:15 PM.

  3. #18

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    If Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all agree behind closed doors to prevent secondhand games being played on their respective consoles, gamers will not be able to switch to a competitors console.
    Related Ars article: Op-ed: Blocking used games unlikely to kill the console game market

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    There's still a way to go before we reach the point of diminishing returns... How close are we to truly photorealistic, real-time games? « Ars Technica

    While Epic's Unreal Engine 3 demo is impressive, you can still tell it's a game.
    Bad choice of phrase by me, perhaps... what I meant by "diminishing returns" was really that the effort required on the part of the developers and artists does not see a proportionally improved image now. Looking at the Unreal demo, it's nothing like as impressive a jump as we had from PS1 > PS2 > PS3, but more like a half-jump that comes from tightening up what we have - better particles, better textures, post-processing and good anti-aliasing. We have the pieces in place already, we just need a bit more grunt to get it to work smoothly.

    Undoubtedly there will still be a big push towards photorealism, but it will take so much intensive art work, and require a generation of setting up camp inside the uncanny valley, that I think greater reward will be had from good art direction on a smooth engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Even if the PS4 has a 7970-class GPU, it will be old news compared to the hardware that PC gamers will have access to when the console is released in two years time (late 2013 or thereabouts).
    You don't need to convince me that PCs are best for gaming, anyone with half a brain knows that

  4. #19


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    New rumour today about the next-gen Xbox...

    www.vg247.com/2012/04/02/xbox-720-detailed-blu-ray-inside-always-on-netcon-required/

    VG247 has learned that Microsoft has now detailed Xbox 720 to certain partners and has internally confirmed the machine for a Christmas 2013 release.

    The next generation Xbox will have a Blu-ray drive, contrary to a recent report.

    Multiple sources have confirmed this morning that the machine will have two GPUs. One said: “It’s like two PCs taped together".

    There will be “four or six” cores to the Xbox 720 CPU, one of which will be reserved for Kinect and one for the OS.

    Xbox 720 will require an always-on internet connection as an anti-piracy measure.

    We’ve also been told that the next generation of Kinect will be built into the device as standard.

    The details have emerged in the wake of a hastily removed tweet from Sean Tracy, a technical designer for Crytek, that said he was attending the “Durango summit” in London at the end of February. Durango is though to be the codename for the console.
    Is piracy that bad on the Xbox 360 that Microsoft feel the need to implement Ubisoft-style DRM?

  5. #20

    nephilim's Avatar
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    It was announced at E3 that 2nd hand games will be a thing of the past, purely from the standpoint made by developers of the games. Take skyrim or Call of Duty for example, brand new - £40, 2nd hand - £20...both usable in the same way. EA cottoned on after Fifa 08 and started doing activation codes that were either free with a new game, or cost £10 with a 2nd hand game, which goes straight to EA.

    In theory the 2nd hand games will still work, it will just mean you buy activations for the games to play them, so unless the game is either years old, or ridiculously cheap, it would make sense to buy a new game rather than 2nd hand.

  6. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    I love the way PS3 is counted by some as a "Failure" even after selling 65m units. Quite laughable.
    But for the first few years they made a lose on every console. It would be interesting to know what the actual profits after the games "tax" is between the manufacturers.

    It is my experience that there are a hell of a lot of people who bought a PS3, but out of those people 9 out of 10 don't actually play on them, infact I don't know anyone who still does, and considering the 360 is older you would expect it would be the PS which people still play.

    Obviously wikipedia isn't always the best source of facts but never the less looking at the following article shows that xbox 360 far outsold PS3 on cross platform games.
    List of best-selling video games - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If MS and Nintendo were smart they would allow 2nd hand games on their new consoles, kill Sony off, and then change their mind with the next incarnation of their respective consoles...

    Do you reckon they might update their archaic pad this time?

    I make no apologies for not liking Sony. They are Apple but minus the innovation, since the PS1 at least.
    Last edited by j17sparky; 2nd April 2012 at 09:08 PM.

  7. #22

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    Every console maker sells consoles at a loss for the first few years. The only exception MAY have been the Wii, I don't recall.

  8. #23

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpe5732 View Post
    Every console maker sells consoles at a loss for the first few years. The only exception MAY have been the Wii, I don't recall.
    Indeed, the Wii was profitable straight out of the gate, and was (iirc) pretty much the first console to ever do so - at least for a long time, anyway. Just one more reason why Nintendo are rolling in it right now.

    Wii profitable from day one News • News • Eurogamer.net

  9. #24
    Pete10141748's Avatar
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    If there is going to be an "always-on" anti-piracy thing and activation codes required just to play a game, I'd love to know how companies who rent out games like LoveFilm will work with it.

    Backwards compatability, I could care less about. I own a PS3 (never game on it though, only use it as a bluray player), but I still have my PS2 if I want to play PS2 games, and if I get a PS4 (meh) that doesn't mean I'll chuck my PS3 the same day. Play a game on the hardware it was designed for, or don't play it.

    And I wouldn't be suprised if they tried to eliminate the second-hand market now the tech is around to do so. Reselling games makes the developers of the games no more money, the profit all goes to whoever sold the title 2nd hand, so of course they would rather everyone bought new copies of the game.

  10. #25

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    One thing nobody has mentioned here yet: what the hell happens if my internet connection goes down? In addition to no web I won't be able to play a game either (or watch a film potentially, assuming the "always on" connection means for any use!)?!

    Do we trust the ISPs in this country to keep our connections constant?

  11. #26

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    One thing nobody has mentioned here yet: what the hell happens if my internet connection goes down? In addition to no web I won't be able to play a game either (or watch a film potentially, assuming the "always on" connection means for any use!)?!

    Do we trust the ISPs in this country to keep our connections constant?
    Ask people who play Ubisoft games on their PCs: Ubisoft DRM server downtime locks players out of Anno 2070, Driver: San Francisco and more | PC Gamer. You don't just need to worry about ISPs and flaky wireless connections - even the companies you pay all the money to cba to plan a reasonable migration plan, which in these days of rentable server space, virtualisation and live migration is pretty shocking.

    There's the other issue as well - which has been quietly problematic for a few years with EA multiplayer games - of servers getting turned off or companies going bust. It's bad enough that EA force you to upgrade Tiger Woods games every couple of years by turning off the multiplayer servers for older versions, but getting locked out of single player games, or not being able to go back and play games on the PS4 in two decades time, is just outright abuse of consumer rights.

    Stupid thing is, Sony would have had piracy more or less beaten this generation if they'd just used a random seed on their certificate infrastructure. Numpties.

  12. #27
    gshaw's Avatar
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    Why the hell should I need always on Internet to play a single player game?! Glad I've moved back to PC

  13. #28


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    Quote Originally Posted by gshaw View Post
    Why the hell should I need always on Internet to play a single player game?!
    Because we aren't paying enough money for our games...

    DRM will go away when Ubisoft gets what it feels its owed
    Ubisoft has won no fans with its insistence on using anti-consumer DRM measures in its PC games, but the European publisher doesn't want it to be that way. In fact, digital boss Chris Early thinks DRM's days are numbered, just as soon as PC games offer better value.

    Oh, and if you think he means, "Better value for customers so that they buy more games," you're dead wrong. He means better value for his company. DRM will go away when more gamers pay the piper. (Source)

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