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Gaming Thread, Nintendo posts full year loss - Blames Wii U in Fun Stuff; Oh no Nintendo, what are you doing? BBC News - Nintendo says 'No' to gay game characters Surely it wouldn't ...
  1. #16

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Oh no Nintendo, what are you doing?

    BBC News - Nintendo says 'No' to gay game characters

    Surely it wouldn't be difficult to release an update allowing same sex relationships in the game? All they're doing by saying no is potentially angering a huge potential market.

    I think they're already lost...

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    Surely it wouldn't be difficult to release an update allowing same sex relationships in the game?
    It would be.

    It's not a simple rewrite of one line. The entire game would likely need to be remade. There was a glitch that allowed same sex couples, it literally crashed the game.

    Also; where was the outcry when this game came out... 5 YEARS AGO. [Tomodachi collection came out in 2009. This is the sequel, it hasn't changed.]


    Game devs should be allowed to make the game THEY want to make. Not the one YOU want.

    Don't like it? Don't buy it.

  3. #18

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    It would be.

    It's not a simple rewrite of one line. The entire game would likely need to be remade. There was a glitch that allowed same sex couples, it literally crashed the game.
    a glitch != an update.

    Obviously I don't know how the game has been coded but the game can only tell whether you're male or female because it's been programmed to do so, so it can only prevent same sex marriages because it's been programmed to do so - I really cannot imagine it'd be a major issue to remove that single restriction.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    Also; where was the outcry when this game came out... 5 YEARS AGO. [Tomodachi collection came out in 2009. This is the sequel, it hasn't changed.]
    The Japanese are a hell of a lot less liberal than a lot of us Westerners; I dare say a lot of gay Japanese people would have liked the option but their culture would have prevented them from speaking out. We're a lot more relaxed about sexuality in this "neck of the woods" (they guy who started the campaign was American)

    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    Game devs should be allowed to make the game THEY want to make. Not the one YOU want.

    Don't like it? Don't buy it.
    True, but if you're making a game where you are encouraged to treat your character as an extension of yourself, it's not in your best interests to put in limitations on things like sexuality (to a basic level such as gay/straight at least) as you're alienating a lot of people by doing so.

    As the guy who started the original campaign said, the nature of the game makes not being able to be in a same sex relationship in-game feel like an exclusion; it wouldn't be an issue in most games.

  4. #19
    CAM
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    He claimed that since his virtual avatar was not able to marry in the game, he would miss out on "exclusive content".

    "I want to be able to marry my real-life fiance's Mii, but I can't do that," Mr Marini was quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.
    As a single person, I demand my pixels are given the ability to marry nothing and gain access to this exclusive content. Or do the same thing he has proposed anyway and marry something completely random.

    Another case of "I can't forcibly wedge my political opinion into your game/campaign/something so I will raise trouble and call you a homophobe" which seems all too common these days.

  5. #20

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    As a single person, I demand my pixels are given the ability to marry nothing and gain access to this exclusive content. Or do the same thing he has proposed anyway and marry something completely random.

    Another case of "I can't forcibly wedge my political opinion into your game/campaign/something so I will raise trouble and call you a homophobe" which seems all too common these days.
    Actually, I agree with your first point - why should married characters get exclusive content? Why should you miss out on content?

    As for your second point - well that's disappointing. I don't think anyone is trying to "force their political opinion" in to the game, the game encourages you to live out a virtual life, then denies you the freedom to be straight/gay. The fact is, not everyone is straight! There's a reason you can choose your gender in most games now, there's a reason you can change your race/skin colour, it's all about inclusion.

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoom7000 View Post
    I personally don't think the Wii U (and the 3DS) are savable at this point and they need to start focusing on their next console and handheld. But, before they do, they need to realise that they are at a crossroad and the way they choose to go will define their future in the industry. Personally, I think they have 2 options:

    Option 1: Take on Sony and Microsoft at what they do best. Design a powerful gaming console and bring the gamers the games they want such as CoD, GTA, FIFA etc. With the addition of favourites like Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda and other Nintendo exclusives, they may actually give the "big two" a decent challenge.

    Option 2: Stick to their bread and butter of releasing a lower end console compared to the Playstation and Xbox, but do it cheaper, much cheaper!

    For Nintendo, option 2 seems the most likely. The problem here is that the Wii did well on initial sales, because of it's price. It's innovation on the motion sensor tech did great to aid these sales, but it targeted the very casual gamer. As soon as they got bored of Wii Sports, they didn't really bother going out to buy another set of games and the Wii sat in a corner and got forgotten about. Nintendo took the initial sales as a sign that people wanted another Wii with more features, but that really wasn't the case and the Wii U was far too expensive for what it offered.

    I personally can't see them going down the route of option 1, which is a shame because I think this is what made the N64 popular in that it was a decent enough rival to the PS1. They need to stop trying to over innovate. No one wants Nintendo's take on social networking on the 3DS, for that the majority have Facebook or Twitter. No one wants an expensive handheld gaming device, for that they already have iOS, Android or WP8. If Nintendo aren't gonna take on Sony & Microsoft, the only way forward is going down the route of creating a decent console and a decent handheld (Get rid of all the 3DS business that hurt everyones eyes and bring back the Game Boy!) and selling it at a much cheaper price. Get the Nintendo titles on it that everyone loves and get the indie developers in to help boost the games. It's not the strongest of business plans, but it's the one that Nintendo will most probably go for. Failing that, the only way forward for them really, is down the same route as Sega.
    I can't really see Nintendo devaluing themselves, it may send the wrong message. If people want cheap gaming then the Android systems now emerging already have the game base and price war sewn up.
    Unless Nintendo release a cheap but better specced console they would have to price up the games. The Wii U also misses out of the 'value-add' of the PS4 and XB1 which also have a lot more media functionallity.
    The handheld war is also almost over, as I think mobile platforms have that pretty much sewn up now (if only they could get out of the pay-to-play mentality!) so the DS range is going to loese it's relevance and I'd be surprised if Sony release another handheld after the Vita.
    Nintendo are going to get one more throw of the dice and regardless of the cash reserves they have if you don't have market share, you have nothing.

  7. #22
    CAM
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosOjos View Post
    Actually, I agree with your first point - why should married characters get exclusive content? Why should you miss out on content?

    As for your second point - well that's disappointing. I don't think anyone is trying to "force their political opinion" in to the game, the game encourages you to live out a virtual life, then denies you the freedom to be straight/gay. The fact is, not everyone is straight! There's a reason you can choose your gender in most games now, there's a reason you can change your race/skin colour, it's all about inclusion.
    Why is it disappointing? I've seen social justice in action many times and my statement accurately describes it's modus operandi. Stir up controversy, marginalise the opposite viewpoint through shaming and name-calling and come out victorious. Would it be a nice feature to see in the game? Yes. Does it have to be in the game to the point a load of extra work has to be put in to add it post-development even though it caused a fatal error? No. Therefore does it really warrant a shaming media campaign calling Nintendo homophobic? Certainly not!

    NOTE: As I just posted on Twitter it isn't the political viewpoint of most campaign groups that I oppose, it is how they typically operate even if I agree with what they are trying to convey.
    Last edited by CAM; 8th May 2014 at 12:59 PM.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    I can't really see Nintendo devaluing themselves, it may send the wrong message. If people want cheap gaming then the Android systems now emerging already have the game base and price war sewn up.
    Unless Nintendo release a cheap but better specced console they would have to price up the games. The Wii U also misses out of the 'value-add' of the PS4 and XB1 which also have a lot more media functionallity.
    The handheld war is also almost over, as I think mobile platforms have that pretty much sewn up now (if only they could get out of the pay-to-play mentality!) so the DS range is going to loese it's relevance and I'd be surprised if Sony release another handheld after the Vita.
    Nintendo are going to get one more throw of the dice and regardless of the cash reserves they have if you don't have market share, you have nothing.
    So where do they throw the dice?

    Can't compete with Sony/Microsoft
    Can't compete with Ouya/Fire TV/AppleTV
    Can't compete with Android/iOS
    Can't compete with Steam

    What's left?

  9. #24

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    Thing is, they can compete with Sony and MS. N64 was brilliant, 64bit at the time when Sony released 32bit. was unheard of. Granted the controller was horrible, but the rest was sound.

    If they redid that, they could release high end (not to XB1 or PS4 levels), but somewhere between PS3/XB360 and PS4/XB1. Wouldn't need to be overtly powerful, but enough to run the Nintendo games at 60FPS, in HD. Re-release pokemon, zelda, mario, as open world/sandbox titles, and then they will profit. I would love to play Mario, Zelda and Pokemon in that sort of way!

  10. #25

    X-13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    Why is it disappointing? I've seen social justice in action many times and my statement accurately describes it's modus operandi. Stir up controversy, marginalise the opposite viewpoint through shaming and name-calling and come out victorious. Would it be a nice feature to see in the game? Yes. Does it have to be in the game to the point a load of extra work has to be put in to add it post-development even though it caused a fatal error? No. Therefore does it really warrant a shaming media campaign calling Nintendo homophobic? Certainly not!
    Of course you'd say that being straight, white, cis-male scum.[/sarcasm]


    Demanding same-sex marriage gets put into THIS game is an unnecessary headache for the devs and a pointless conversation... because it ain't happening.

    Asking for it to be added into the next one [if there is a next one] is what they should be doing. Tell them you liked the look of it, but didn't buy it BECAUSE OF THIS and that you would be more likely to buy the next one if it had same-sex marriage.

    Stockholders love that stuff. More people buying means more money for them. If they can make a change before it goes gold that could make them more money, they'll more than likely do it.


    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    N64 was brilliant <snip> Granted the controller was horrible, but the rest was sound.
    The trident controller was, and still is, awesome.
    Last edited by X-13; 8th May 2014 at 01:01 PM.

  11. #26

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    But, as good as the N64 was (and it was the closest Nintendo ever got to the hardcore market) it too failed against the compition. It's game library is a fraction of the PS1. I've seen some comparison vids on YouTube recently and the textures on the PS1 make a huge difference. The catridge media was over priced and ultimately couldn't contain the same content as a CD. This is Nintendo all over. Had the N64 been released with a CD-Rom drive I'm sure their fortunes might have been different. Even the GameCube - which is an otherwise spectacular piece of hardware - is hampered by it's proprietory mini-DVD format.

    Can Nintendo develop a Spec equivalent next gen console and attract third party support? And what about online service and multiplayer. They are so far behind it's not funny.

    Really can't see how Nintendo can mount a direct assult on the big 2. And don't forget Steam are looming on the horizon for thier shot at the title.

  12. #27

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    Of course you'd say that being straight, white, cis-male scum.[/sarcasm]

    Demanding same-sex marriage gets put into THIS game is an unnecessary headache for the devs and a pointless conversation... because it ain't happening.

    Asking for it to be added into the next one [if there is a next one] is what they should be doing. Tell them you liked the look of it, but didn't buy it BECAUSE OF THIS and that you would be more likely to buy the next one if it had same-sex marriage.

    Stockholders love that stuff. More people buying means more money for them. If they can make a change before it goes gold that could make them more money, they'll more than likely do it.
    I just don't understand why, in this day and age, we have to put limits on such basic things. Nintendo's response has been "we never intended to make a social commentary" - well, you made a game that encourages you to live a virtual life, then stopped people from being gay in your virtual world, so you are making a social commentary whether you like it or not.

    I think it's safe to say that most people who are campaigning for this are not developers. They may not understand the complexity involved in adding gay characters in to the game (though I really don't see how it could possibly be that difficult to do but hey-ho). What Nintendo should have done is, rather than try to play it off as unimportant/irrelevant, said "we have heard your concerns and although it's too late to add that option in to this game, we will bear your concerns in mind for future games."

    That's all it needed, acknowledgement of the problem.

    By the way, I'm a 26 year old, white, heterosexual male. Some people ought to try a little empathy.

  13. #28
    CAM
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    They do say that in their response:

    "We will continue to listen and think about the feedback. We're using this as an opportunity to better understand our consumers and their expectations of us."

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    They do say that in their response:
    Well then that's egg on my face!

  15. #30

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    Here's an interesting answer to the Wii-U problem:

    UPDATE 1-Nintendo to introduce console for emerging markets as early as 2015/16 | Reuters

    Ignore western markets completely and consentrate on offer emerging markets like China a cheaper console were Sony/Microsoft haven't taken hold.



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