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Gaming Thread, PS4 Announced in Fun Stuff; It is a bit of a mixed message from Sony. Still those "no resale" copyright restriction are standard clauses for ...
  1. #211

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    It is a bit of a mixed message from Sony. Still those "no resale" copyright restriction are standard clauses for just about any media (book, DVD, CD, game). It's also very rarely enforced, thus the FAQ and mixed message.

  2. #212


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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    Sensationalist click bait.
    I thought it might be.

    The company adds that all software is "licensed, not sold," meaning users only acquire the rights to use software but not ownership of the software. Additionally, the terms state users cannot re-sell "disc-based software or software downloads" unless authorized by Sony.

    Despite the language used in describing resale of software, a Sony Computer Entertainment spokesperson said it has not changed its policies regarding how it treats disc-based games.

    "As we announced at E3, use of disc-based games will be similar to how PS3 works today. When gamers buy a PS4 disc, they can use that copy of the game, trade-in the game at retail, sell it to another person, lend it to a friend, or keep it forever." (Source)
    Considering that games are "licensed, not sold," it's a shame that you can only resell disc-based games, but not digital downloads.
    Last edited by Arthur; 12th November 2013 at 05:37 AM.

  3. #213

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    From Shuhei Yoshida "If you are concerned about our new European TOS, we confirm that you are able to sell or share your disc PS4 products, including in EU. @yosp"

    On another note here is Battlefield 4 running on VITA via PS4 Remote Play.

    http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/11/11...eld-4-gameplay
    Last edited by Theblacksheep; 12th November 2013 at 03:28 PM.

  4. #214


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    I think Anne Robinson might have something to say about this.

    A 500GB PlayStation 4 Will Give You About 400GB of Storage « Kotaku

    A 500GB PlayStation 4 actually has a little more than 400GB of available storage, meaning you're going to fill that drive up even faster than you thought with the hefty mandatory installations of games like Killzone: Shadow Fall.P

    That's according to a series of Tweets from a lucky user named CJ who got his PlayStation 4 three days early and has spent most of the day Tweeting what he's seen. The installation for Killzone: Shadow Fall takes up 39 gigabytes on the PlayStation 4's hard drive; Call of Duty: Ghosts occupies 32.
    Last edited by Arthur; 13th November 2013 at 12:26 AM. Reason: Typo

  5. #215

    nephilim's Avatar
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    They are getting worse and worse...in the US alone the above news cost them (according to various twitter feeds, gaming site reports and facebook pages). They've lost (on average from the sites) 28% of the pre-orders, with the figure rising.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    They've lost (on average from the sites) 28% of the pre-orders, with the figure rising.
    Just because of the HDD? That's crazy!

    I thought one of the PS4's major selling points was that you can easily upgrade the drive (or are people objecting to the fact that they will have to spend an additional $90/£60+ on top of the cost of the console itself)?

  7. #217

    nephilim's Avatar
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    No...from the whole debatable issue of the trade ins...in the NON-EU market they've shafted everyone. In the US, places like gamestop, which do around 80% of its sales from trade ins, will be close to breaking point with the PS4, with some independent places also refusing outright to not stock any, even with their special offers for them. Its quite remarkable. Oh and the upgradable HDD, according to preliminary tests run by IGN, the machine can't see anything beyond 1TB unless its an external HDD.

    They're also objecting to the fact that they're
    1) Losing on 1/5 of the HDD space essentially, before any games get installed (Based on the size of BF4, its total install is expecting to be around 45GB once all patches, DLCs etc are done). This means only 8 games can be installed before they're out of space - based on that sizing alone. Killzone I believe is expected to be bigger.
    2) To increase HDD space they have to buy a Sony Approved HDD, not just any old HDD. It also has to be 2.5in rather than 3.5in which makes it more expensive. So around another £80-100/$100-$125 for expanded HDD space.
    3) Message/chat/video/IP monitoring (the TOS almost had me with a jaw drop)...that was their biggest killer...

  8. #218

    nephilim's Avatar
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    Pulled direct from PS4 TOS...

    Any information collected in this way, for example, your UGM, the content of your voice and text communications, including private chat functions, voice messaging, text messaging, party chat, in game chat and in game messages, video of your gameplay, the time and location of your activities, and your name, your PSN Online ID and IP address, may be used by us or our affiliated companies to enforce these Terms and the SEN Terms of Service, to comply with the law, to protect our rights and those of our licensors and users, and to protect the personal safety of our employees and users. This information may and will be passed to the police or other appropriate authorities should we deem it appropriate. By accepting these Software Usage Terms, you expressly consent to this.

  9. #219


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    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    1) Losing on 1/5 of the HDD space essentially, before any games get installed
    It's a shame Sony didn't stick a larger HDD in there from the start, but I suppose they have a specific price point to meet.

    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    2) To increase HDD space they have to buy a Sony Approved HDD, not just any old HDD.
    According to Sony's Yasuhiro Ootori (PS4 Engineering Director) you can use any standard 2.5" drive. As long as it's larger than 160GB and no more than 9.5mm in height (although some people are saying 12.5mm HDDs would fit unofficially).



    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    It also has to be 2.5in rather than 3.5in which makes it more expensive. So around another £80-100/$100-$125 for expanded HDD space.
    It's £80 if you want a 1TB SSHD. You could get away with a £50-£60 1TB HDD if you aren't too bothered about speed. People with money to burn could also buy a 1TB SSD for £450.

    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    3) Message/chat/video/IP monitoring (the TOS almost had me with a jaw drop)...that was their biggest killer...
    Seems pretty standard to me, especially considering the multi-player/social features of the console. Also, how else can Sony identify and/or ban people who misuse their services without monitoring everything gamers do?

    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    In the US, places like gamestop, which do around 80% of its sales from trade ins, will be close to breaking point with the PS4, with some independent places also refusing outright to not stock any, even with their special offers for them. Its quite remarkable.
    If the next-gen consoles (XB2/PS5) do not have optical drives then GameStop's days are numbered anyway. Digital downloads will outsell physical copies of games eventually - it's just a matter of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by nephilim View Post
    Oh and the upgradable HDD, according to preliminary tests run by IGN, the machine can't see anything beyond 1TB unless it's an external HDD.
    That doesn't sound right? Perhaps the launch day update will fix this?
    Last edited by Arthur; 13th November 2013 at 02:23 AM.

  10. #220

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    The scaremongering going on with both consoles is getting silly. I must say Edugeek was the last place I'd have expected to see it. Most of these issues/complaints involve people not engaging their brains.

    Take the 400Gb hard drive. Forget PS4 for a minute, you can do this for any system - XB1, PC, Mac, etc....

    1) Install an off the shelf 500Gb hard drive.
    2) Format it
    3) Install an OS

    Now how much space is left on that drive for data? Why 400Gb doesn't sound too bad. I wonder if XB1 is similar?

    Also - Sony have already announced any 2.5" drive, so I call BS on the Sony specific rumor. Limited to 1Tb before the day 1 patch might be true - but it is a day 1 patch. Finally, the PS4 doesn't support external drives at all so that whole rumor is looking mighty suspect.
    Last edited by tmcd35; 13th November 2013 at 05:03 AM.

  11. #221

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    At least on the PS4 you can change the drive the XB1 drive is non-removable and given that drives eventually fail that will mean a new console or expensive repair

  12. #222

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    Looking at the XB1's OS set up (Hyper-V) it makes some sense why it's not user upgradable. What is beginning to make less sense, given known game sizes, is why they both settled on 500Gb? Does seem a little small when you start taking everything into account.

  13. #223

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    LOL @ "forced" to use a 2.5" drive and Sony approved drives, please. My first PS3 in 2006 (still working) came with 20GB drive, you were "forced" to use any 2 platter (9.5mm height) 2.5" drives. Any 2.5" 12.5mm max height HDD can be used in PS4.

    500GB should give 460-470GB of usable space, meaning they reserve about 60GB for the OS and cache.

    PS4 US Manual is online:
    PlayStation®4 User's Guide

    PS4 1.50 update is live:
    http://us.playstation.com/support/sy...date/index.htm



    DLNA will be back in future update:

    "Like we’ve been saying, the focus has always been on game features. And some of the features that we wanted but we couldn’t get in on day one… game features… we’re very disappointed and worried about not having them on day one, and that’s always been of higher priority. So as we speak the teams in Japan and in the US, the system guys, are discussing on how and when we can put these features on PS4" yosp

    Sony Was “Caught Off Guard” by Reaction to PS4 MP3/DLNA Exclusion, Was Focusing on Gaming Features | DualShockers



    Its been announced War Thunder is F2P features mouse/keyboard support, PC cross-play and camera head-tracking and available from 29th Nov in the EU.
    Last edited by Theblacksheep; 13th November 2013 at 11:06 AM.

  14. #224

    nephilim's Avatar
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    War Thunder could be a big thing if it does allow cross-play (people have been asking for cross-play for years, on any console).

    I saw this and chuckled

  15. #225

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    Hahaha I really hope they let cross platform play regardless of keyboard and mouse, PC users will own all of them tbh, there are so many pc platform advantages you can use over other players. Its actually one thing I like about consoles, less cheating/hacks etc in general and everyone has the same settings.
    I know many have asked for it but really I dont think they have thought it through, I know I would always have an advantage on PC begin able to tweak so much when any console cant (this is true for xbox too)

    Ars has an early hands on Impressions: Our first day with the PlayStation 4 is full of surprises | Ars Technica and you get 407gb like others thought.

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