Educational Software Thread, Held to ransom over our own data! in Technical; You've also agreed "consent to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of courts in King County, Washington, U.S.A. in all disputes ...
16th November 2010, 01:20 PM #16
You've also agreed "consent to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of courts in King County, Washington, U.S.A. in all disputes arising out of or relating to the use of the Primary Pad Web Site", and that "by posting, uploading, inputting, providing or submitting your Submission you are granting Primary Pad, <snip> without limitation, the rights to: copy, distribute, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, reproduce, edit, translate and reformat your Submission; and to publish your name in connection with your Submission." Hmm.
16th November 2010, 01:22 PM #17
- Rep Power
I get your point.
So I guess the best method here is to give Primary Technology a little exposure?
16th November 2010, 01:55 PM #18
Why on earth did you keep the only copy of mission-critical documents on a free service that you had no business relationship with? You did read that it was only a 3 month trial when you signed up, right?
Originally Posted by mrstephenw
You used their service for free for 3 months, so it suited your purpose. When your trial expired (and your work was gone) you were unwilling to pay to continue using it. Bad-mouthing them because you failed to understand the nature of "trial" just makes you look foolish.
Last edited by pete; 16th November 2010 at 02:22 PM.
16th November 2010, 02:39 PM #19
- Rep Power
I never signed up for a trial, I just created a primary pad. It was just an alternative to Etherpad at the time - another free service. Just what we needed.
If I was made aware that it was a 30day/3 month trail from the start I would have exported the document. Simple.
I thought we could have kept on collaborating forever!
Who said anything about bad mouthing? I'm just making people aware.
16th November 2010, 10:27 PM #20
It is a free service ... it is run by one of the collaborators on etherpad who helped to make sure there is an open source version. If you want to run a version yourself, you can do Etherpad Foundation
If John needs to update the FAQ or make the limitations a bit more overt then that can be pointed out. To be honest, if you liked it as a product for collaboration (and it can be a lot more fun that Google Docs for that) then sign up for a year just for senior leaders / key staff to collaborate. You have lost nothing and get your resource back.
As with a number of open source things, the money is in the support and expertise, not the licence ... so as I keep saying to people ... there is never anything for free.
16th November 2010, 11:00 PM #21
An update from PrimaryPad
Thanks for the thread Steven. I'm happier when debating this sort of stuff in a public forum than in private where users needs aren't properly reflected.
Thanks also to everyone who has commented so far.
I'm the MD of Primary Technology, the company that runs PrimaryPad.
So yeah, legally we don't have to do anything, not even acknowledge your initial request but that would just be plain stupid and if we did that we would suck.
The fact of the matter is since we released Etherpad 1.1 we have been doing 3 installs per day all over the world. Please Consider we are only a small team and we run various other Web2 services(26 in total) so we don't get much time in the day to deal with issues that aren't easily reachable. Restoring data is a 20 minute job, but that is 20 minutes we don't have because of the amount of paid work we are doing. Restoring 20 lots of data is a 30 minute job. So it makes a lot more sense to do them in bulk.
My last email states "give me a few weeks and I will get back to you".
I think we need to clear this bit up.. You want the data restored (sure) and you want it within a time period all the free? Hrm.. I seem to be getting a raw deal here, what do other people think?
16th November 2010, 11:02 PM #22
PS. Our terms and condition and Privacy Statement suck. As is the case with 99% websites/web services. As a concept they are a joke but we legally have to have them. More easily understandable conditions will be live as soon as a standard is available.
18th December 2010, 10:15 AM #23
- Rep Power
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm glad you like having your debates in public - it suggests to me a certain degree of honesty I've yet to admire about Primary Technology - Primary Pad.
We do however seem to be scooting around the basics of this case. Why don't you make it clear that your Primary Pads only last for 30 days?
I'd hate to think you were leading people into a false sense of security then stinging them with a 140.00 fine, but that's the reality, surely?
I do understand that your resources are limited and I appreciate this.
Here are a few suggestions from users at other forums:
- Making it clear your 'Primary Pad' only lasts for a month before you charge 140.00 to release the data.
- Making it mandatory for people to agree to your terms and conditions before allowing them to sign up.
Gosh, I wish my customers would allow me to charge them 140.00 for 20 mins work!
20th December 2010, 03:48 PM #24
Originally Posted by mrstephenw
It seems to me (I have no connection whatsoever with Primary Pad)
1) that it is quite clear on the front page of their web site that it is a 3 month trial (and that you have to pay after that)
2) You failed to backup important data to your school
3) A £140 fee for recovering work sounds reasonable - I've paid more for my institution (when its been our fault we didn't back something important up)
22nd January 2011, 02:34 PM #25
My apologies in the late response, as you may know things are very busy at PrimaryT!
When you create a new pad it states in the pad contents that public pads only last for 30 days. Has done for 6months+.
It's not a fine. It's a charge to do some work that we never agreed we would do in the first place.
Under no circumstances do I agree to "- Making it mandatory for people to agree to your terms and conditions before allowing them to sign up." Barrier free learning is critical to a modern society and all of PrimaryT's services try to reflect this. I'd say kudos to PrimaryT for encouraging this type of service and learning.
You may have seen you can now subscribe to 12 months of PrimaryPad and pay as much as you want, I think this is a great deal and kudos to PrimaryT for putting it out there!
If you want more details see PrimaryPad 1 month only offer - Pay Whatever you want. -- Note to mods, this isn't a plug, it should help Stephen get started again!
Thanks to johnymac from:
GrumbleDook (22nd January 2011)
22nd January 2011, 09:17 PM #26
Oooh ... pay what you want ... I know a few schools that will be interested in that, and we should also point out that schools in Bradford Learning Network have got it completely free as part of a subscription done for them.
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