+ Post New Thread
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 87
Educational Software Thread, Network Manager refuses to install OpenOffice - comments please. in Technical; Originally Posted by Midget then use the same method I use for getting people to use firefox. rename the shortcut ...
  1. #61
    t20racerman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    18
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Midget View Post
    then use the same method I use for getting people to use firefox. rename the shortcut

    writer shortcut name = OpenWord
    math shortcut name = OpenExcel

    etc that way they know which one is equiv.

    and the people i know who open the prog first then the files are all people who don't have a full grasp of computers.
    I think we are off track a little here.

    Without Windows recognising which program opens which file, my staff (4 of them plus me) would navigate to the Physics folder and a see a File called say - 4th yr SoW. (Scheme of Work).
    However, under the 'seperate disc' solution, this would be a default icon that Windows uses when it doesn't recognise the file type (as discussed earlier). They would not know which program to open it with. How would the technically weaker members of my department know if I'd written this in 'Writer' or 'Calc'. (It is actually done in Calc, not Writer as you' might expect it to be)
    This makes life complicated. If it was recognised by Windows - ie OOo installed correctly - they could just click on the icon and 'bing!' the file opens. Is this too much to ask?


    I appreciate people offering work-arounds, but to be honest I've tried them all and nothing so far works quickly, easily and is simple to understand.

    I did ask if there were technical reasons why OOo could not be installed, and still I'm waiting for reasons why not!

    Please let me know the answer to that. Thanks

  2. #62
    mortstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Oxford
    Posts
    341
    Thank Post
    12
    Thanked 29 Times in 18 Posts
    Rep Power
    21
    There are no technical reasons why not.

    If you are intent on steamrollering this issue then you will be treading on toes and this may bode badly for you in future interactions with the NM.

    Obviously it is your choice to carry on with this request - I'm not sure what OpenOffice offers you over MS Office - to most they seem pretty identical (disregarding their support for open standards) - I'd be worried if a trainee teacher (from England or abroad) could not transfer the skills they learnt in OOo to MS Office.

  3. #63

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    33
    Thank Post
    16
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Rep Power
    15
    Sorry I thought you want people who used open office at home etc to be about to print edit documents etc..

    You are correct if you want to just double click on a open office file the easiest way is to install it on the pcs, Personally I donít see it as a problem, But I know a few place where having ms office & open office on the same pcs does confuses the teachers & some pupils as you have said not all staff are technical!!

    The way you are talking it sounds like you want to force your departmentís staff to use open office, which from a whole school point of view, starts becomes difficult as when you share documents between other departments or even others school, I know off two schools around here that uninstall open office because of this reason. I guess you want open office install all over the school so you can edit\print documents on any pc in the school to make your life easier?

    I would install open office across the school along side MS Office as there are no technical reasons why not too, but I would not force anyone to use it.

    Also any open office product will open any open office document so you only need one shortcut on your desktops so your staff don't have to know which program open which file type!!! Try it

  4. #64

    powdarrmonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Alcester, Warwickshire
    Posts
    4,859
    Thank Post
    412
    Thanked 777 Times in 650 Posts
    Rep Power
    182
    Quote Originally Posted by sfoord View Post
    The way you are talking it sounds like you want to force your departmentís staff to use open office, which from a whole school point of view, starts becomes difficult as when you share documents between other departments or even others school, I know off two schools around here that uninstall open office because of this reason. I guess you want open office install all over the school so you can edit\print documents on any pc in the school to make your life easier?
    That's not what he's saying at all, he wants them side by side. But that's academic anyway, because the question is whether there are any technical reasons why they should not co-exist, and the answer is not if installed and managed appropriately. There are political reasons, of course, but they are not technical.

  5. #65

    ZeroHour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    5,644
    Thank Post
    895
    Thanked 1,314 Times in 798 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    444
    Quote Originally Posted by t20racerman View Post
    I think we are off track a little here.

    Without Windows recognising which program opens which file, my staff (4 of them plus me) would navigate to the Physics folder and a see a File called say - 4th yr SoW. (Scheme of Work).
    However, under the 'seperate disc' solution, this would be a default icon that Windows uses when it doesn't recognise the file type (as discussed earlier). They would not know which program to open it with. How would the technically weaker members of my department know if I'd written this in 'Writer' or 'Calc'. (It is actually done in Calc, not Writer as you' might expect it to be)
    This makes life complicated. If it was recognised by Windows - ie OOo installed correctly - they could just click on the icon and 'bing!' the file opens. Is this too much to ask?


    I appreciate people offering work-arounds, but to be honest I've tried them all and nothing so far works quickly, easily and is simple to understand.
    One point, your saying most of your staff would struggle with 2 sets of formats to deal with.
    This is EXACTLY why you standardise across the school and this is probably one of the biggest things your NM will say. This is to ensure everyone knows exactly what to expect and use and so you can train them in the standard software which is everywhere. Each dep has speciliased software yes but they all have the same office suite to simply training. If each dep had their own choice of office software then it would be a nightmare to ensure everyone is trained in what each department has.

    Techincally there are not many reasons you would not have it installed. The problem is "technically" is not the whole picture that the NM must consider. You wont find many technical reasons but there are a lot of potential training/political reasons that must be considered and its not a simple as technical reasons.
    Last edited by ZeroHour; 28th February 2008 at 07:53 PM.

  6. #66
    flyinghaggis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    994
    Thank Post
    99
    Thanked 70 Times in 57 Posts
    Rep Power
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by t20racerman View Post
    MS Office does not follow published 'Open' standards and refuses to open up its formats and software for competitors to study. The EU fined it millions for this earlier this week as I'm sure you know. OOo uses .odt which is an internationally recognised open format for documents (in the same way every browser recognises .gif or .jpg files), but FULL compatibility with Microsoft Office is not possible in OOo or indeed any other competitor program.
    If you read this forum you will see that even Microsoft Office versions don't always work correctly with each other. Many pupils in our school with an different version of Office on their home computers can't print documents out or use the files on the School network as our present version of MS Office doesn't recognise them!!
    If MS Office opened all my OOo documents and files perfectly, neither I, or any pupil would have any complaint.
    Skipping past the anti-MS OpenOffice Fanboy rant (which I think says a lot about your own personal agenda) you've just proven my point in saying that you're running into problems because you're using 2 different systems. If you're knowingly making all of your teaching resources in OO Impress which ,according to you, isn't compatible with Powerpoint then isn't that a bit short-sighted on your part? That means whenever a pupils goes anywhere in the school other than those '3 machines in your dept' they aren't going to be able to view your materials. This is why I spoke about the whole school view as staff&pupils will, quite rightly, expect to be able to view these documents elsewhere in the school. This leads you very quickly down the path of making the software available everywhere on the network.
    In terms of progressing your request what you should really do is raise it via the relevant channels in your school. You can then sit down with all of the 'players' who your request will ultimately affect (computing dept, IT Support, Office, Headmaster, perhaps PTA if you're suggesting that pupils use it at home) and make an informed decision about the best way forward. Simply wandering along to the Headmasters office and demanding that you get a piece of software when it has so many potential repercussions isn't the way to approach it.
    Last edited by flyinghaggis; 28th February 2008 at 08:13 PM.

  7. #67
    t20racerman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    18
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sfoord View Post
    The way you are talking it sounds like you want to force your departmentís staff to use open office, which from a whole school point of view, starts becomes difficult
    No, absolutely not. Two of us always use OOo, three mostly use MS Office. I would want MS Office to stay as default, but for all members of staff to click on SAVED files and for them to open correctly in whichever program they were written.



    Quote Originally Posted by sfoord View Post
    I would install open office across the school along side MS Office as there are no technical reasons why not too, but I would not force anyone to use it.
    No, me neither!

    Quote Originally Posted by sfoord View Post
    Also any open office product will open any open office document so you only need one shortcut on your desktops so your staff don't have to know which program open which file type!!! Try it
    Thanks, I didn't know that!

  8. #68
    Midget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In a Server Room cutting through a forest of Cat5e
    Posts
    1,298
    Thank Post
    5
    Thanked 59 Times in 49 Posts
    Rep Power
    39
    Considering the few number of people that'll be using the programs (people you insist already use them, so should know what is what) I can't see there being a problem with them doing as I said previously and opening say, OOo Writer and then opening the document just like a lot of low IT literacy people do with MSOffice Word files.

    If however its because you are doing your lesson notes in OOo and then forcing your students to have it installed on their machines if they want to actually read your notes, then this is a completely different subject and nothing to do with the technical questions or T&L and more to do with politics.

  9. #69
    markcuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    586
    Thank Post
    29
    Thanked 60 Times in 55 Posts
    Rep Power
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by t20racerman View Post


    I am meeting with the Headmaster again next week, and am actually at the point of resigning from my job as Head of Physics due to the many frustrations I feel working here.
    maybe you should


    Would love to hear the network manages side of the story but if the head and everyone agrees and you cant get what you want then deal WITH IT.

    mark

  10. #70

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    44
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    I disagree. Someone shouldn't have to resign because they can't get a simple piece of software installed on a minority of computers.

    You have a strong reason for wanting OOo - students use it at home, and it isn't terribly compatible with MS Office. This is a valid reason, and I can't see where you said you would force it on anyone who doesn't want to use it - instead allow students to use it if they wish. I think you should be encouraged to learn different pieces of software, regardless of which is the industry standard and which is not (as long as you have experience with both.)

    There is no obviously painful technical reason for not having OOo installed on those machines, and any issues that might come up (staff not being trained in OOo) can be fixed. For example, staff don't even have to use OOo if they don't want too - just make sure MS Office is the default for the majority of MS Office documents (e.g. .doc, .ppt etc) and therefore OOo can still open the documents from File -> Open. The software installed on most computers in a college is probably never touched by the majority of users; for example nearly everyone might use MS Word or Internet Explorer - but hardly any use Sage or Logos or something that is installed on there for the minority of users who need it - but it's still installed.

    If staff are stupid enough to try and use OOo when MS Office is installed, defaulted and not altered in any way by the OOo install - and they don't know how to use it - then this is their issue, and you can bring it up with them individually.

    As people have said, technical support in a school is there for a reason - to help and assist T&L, and help end users. Your T&L requires OOo for 3 computers; you should get it. There isn't a valid reason why not. A NM being lazy isn't one of them.

    Best Regards,

  11. #71
    t20racerman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    18
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Midget View Post

    If however its because you are doing your lesson notes in OOo and then forcing your students to have it installed on their machines if they want to actually read your notes, then this is a completely different subject and nothing to do with the technical questions or T&L and more to do with politics.
    Other way round actually, I want to see presentations that pupils make who only have OOo at home, and I want to print out their work so that I can mark it.

    I really didn't want this thread to become a flame war, or an OOo v MS war, or even one where people throw insults at each other. It is a shame that this has degenerated into that in places.

    I had hoped to tap into the professionalism of IT Professionals working in Education to find out about the Technical problems I keep being warned of of using OOo on a Network. I asked because I didn't believe the flannel I was given by my NM, but as I'm NOT a NM, I hoped to find out more here in case there were technical problems of which I was unaware.

    Sadly, the flaming has spoilt what was an interesting discussion. Perhaps we should leave it here - enough has been said.

    Thanks to those who were keen to offer their thoughts - they were appreciated.

  12. #72

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Looking down from my Ivory Tower
    Posts
    15
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by t20racerman View Post
    What do you mean by 'an exception'?? Do you vet the software used by the languages, maths and Art departments for example to decide whether it is 'consistent' with something used by say the music department??

    Do you remove 'Paint' from all PCs if one department uses Photoshop?

    What do you mean by consistency here? Please explain
    I've obviously expressed myself badly here so I'll try again.

    By consistency I meant consistency in the way the Network ICT team try to treat all staff and departments across the school. Obviously this does not mean all departments need access to all the software that's deployed across the network, that would be daft. Some department require Photoshop, others cadcam stuff etc etc.

    But if the policy is no open source software on the network, then consistency would be not allowing one department to have open-source software and not the others if they wanted it. If the policy is no, then no it should be otherwise you'll end up with a multitude of 'could you justs' from all over the place and a deal of resentment and difficulty in justifying it if the answer is no.


    Quote Originally Posted by t20racerman View Post
    MS Office does not follow published 'Open' standards and refuses to open up its formats and software for competitors to study. The EU fined it millions for this earlier this week as I'm sure you know. OOo uses .odt which is an internationally recognised open format for documents (in the same way every browser recognises .gif or .jpg files), but FULL compatibility with Microsoft Office is not possible in OOo or indeed any other competitor program.
    If you read this forum you will see that even Microsoft Office versions don't always work correctly with each other. Many pupils in our school with an different version of Office on their home computers can't print documents out or use the files on the School network as our present version of MS Office doesn't recognise them!!

    If MS Office opened all my OOo documents and files perfectly, neither I, or any pupil would have any complaint.
    I understand full well how open office works ta very much. But thanks for the clarification and the suggestion that I read more of this excellent forum. However, I meant saving your OOo documents to be compatible with MSO.

    Could I just point out that I actually have no problem with you wanting OOo on your machines, I can just see it from the other side as well if a decision has been taken by those in charge of ICT within your school not to deploy open-source software.

    Still think you're making a mountain out of a molehill though

  13. #73

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    44
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    0
    @markcuk: I don't see what relevance your reply has to this discussion about OOo. Perhaps if you want to take something up with someone, contact them privately.

    --

    There is no reason that OOo should not be installed on the network - just because it's open source. OOo is secure as far as secure goes, but there is this myth about open source software that it is scary, bad and insecure; which for OOo is rubbish. A policy against open source software shouldn't exist, instead it would be changed to a policy against insecure software (not OOo).

  14. #74

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Looking down from my Ivory Tower
    Posts
    15
    Thank Post
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Light View Post
    There is no reason that OOo should not be installed on the network - just because it's open source. OOo is secure as far as secure goes, but there is this myth about open source software that it is scary, bad and insecure; which for OOo is rubbish. A policy against open source software shouldn't exist, instead it would be changed to a policy against insecure software (not OOo).
    Totally agree, but nevertheless plenty of schools do have such policies and clearly the strong representations that t20racerman has made over time to get such a policy overturned have been unsuccessful. There comes a time when, if for the sake of your own sanity if nothing else, you should let it lie.

  15. #75

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    28
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Perhaps NM should install it on those three machines for you - wouldnt take long and would give you what you want. The problem is that it would set a president (emmental cheese anyone?) so everybody else would want all manner of junk installed. Thas just my 2p.

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Genie Backup Manager - any comments?
    By OverWorked in forum Wireless Networks
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 27th June 2010, 04:45 PM
  2. R2 Printer Manager Failed to install
    By apeo in forum Windows
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 4th July 2007, 06:57 AM
  3. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 2nd July 2007, 08:20 AM
  4. IT manager / Network manager in east midlands?
    By marvin in forum Educational IT Jobs
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 19th April 2007, 05:48 AM
  5. One PC refuses to run script! Help!!!
    By woody in forum Scripts
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 5th October 2005, 11:37 AM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •