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Educational Software Thread, The Licensing FAQ in Technical; As you say, with a mouse, it is obvious - the OEM licence relates to the mouse, but since you ...
  1. #46
    enjay's Avatar
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    As you say, with a mouse, it is obvious - the OEM licence relates to the mouse, but since you can't really break a mouse down into smaller parts or replace/upgrade part of it, it is very easy to determine whether the item still exists; it pretty much either does or doesn't. The same clarity is not present in a PC (or any other component-based item) so it would appear that, when all is said and done, it is personal interpretation.

    While this lack of clarify offers some advantages (I can think of maybe 30 PCs here which have been upgraded but are still being used with an OEM licence), it also brings with it some disadvantages (namely that I may have 30 unlicensed PCs!)

  2. #47

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Ok ... a few more things for clarity.
    External Connector Clarification

    The current licensing definition refers to non-employees. We know this is not a simple definition to apply in an Education context, but for simplicity we take the following view here in the UK:

    Teacher or Staff Member – CAL required

    Student, Alumni, External User, Employer ....... – can all be licensed via an External Connector as an alternative to a CAL

    We are hopeful that this will be further clarified and simplified in the coming months.

    PC Operating System

    Component changes such as memory, disk and graphics cards can all be upgraded without OS implications. The PC motherboard is the core component with which the OS is associated and so if this is upgraded/changed it is viewed as a different PC that either has an existing OS associated with it or requires one. If the Motherboard is being replaced under warranty, due to failure, then the OEM can legitimately re-install an OS and provide a Certificate of Authentication (COA). Check with your OEM or hardware provider if in doubt.

    Terminal Server Licences


    These cover access to the Windows Server. Office is licensed separately on either a user or device basis, whichever is more cost effective. If a user based at home has a locally licensed copy of Office then we will take a sensible view of this and not require an additional copy of Office to be purchased.

    The other thing to look at are ‘Work at Home rights’ for teachers (no additional cost) and Student options. These can greatly reduce the licence burden for schools wishing to support remote access from home. Microsoft Education Resellers should be able to advise on the most cost effective options.
    That last is good for me ... we run a laptops for students scheme and purchase Office Pro for Student / Teacher. We are now starting to give access to the Terminal Server to students on these laptops. And staff access it via their laptops issued to them by school anyway. The only thing to be wary of is ensuring we have sufficient device licences to cover the thin clients.

  3. #48
    DMcCoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    Ok ... a few more things for clarity.


    That last is good for me ... we run a laptops for students scheme and purchase Office Pro for Student / Teacher. We are now starting to give access to the Terminal Server to students on these laptops. And staff access it via their laptops issued to them by school anyway. The only thing to be wary of is ensuring we have sufficient device licences to cover the thin clients.
    You need a better contact

    Office is ONLY AND ALWAYS a DEVICE license!

    And they need to amend the Schools agreement (which I would assume is correct) information in relation to external connectors as it specifically states you can only use it IF you have already purchased the required number of CALS for students.

    Why exactly are all the answers they are giving us different from those that are in the written documentation produced by the rest of Microsoft? This hardly helps clarify.

  4. #49

    Andrew_C's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    It is generally regarded (and I will request clarification) to be deemed 'the whole of the parts', <snip>
    I'll get the above checked though.
    Sounds like the "One True Cross" to me. The wood rotted so has been replaced seven times, and the nails have rusted too, but they've only been replaced five times".

    My box at work started as an Acer Veriton. When the MoBo started blowing capacitors up, I changed it, the memory and the processor. It over heated so I changed the box to get better airflow. That didn't work, so I bought a fancy quiet PSU and cooling fan/heatsink. Then the HDD died and I Ghosted and replaced that, and shortly after I changed the CD drive for a DVD writer. It now has a Firewire card that was never part of the original .

    At what point did I need a new licence?

  5. #50


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    what if you replaced the capacitors or any of the mainboard components? or is it just mainboard pcb. Maybe you can use the same license if you keep the old pcb in the case, and the new mobo is just an addition

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    Teacher or Staff Member – CAL required

    Student, Alumni, External User, Employer ....... – can all be licensed via an External Connector as an alternative to a CAL

    We are hopeful that this will be further clarified and simplified in the coming months.
    They could simplify it by not requiring an external connector for home use if you have a schools agreement. We pay them enough already and they want to sting us to the tune of Ł1500 effectively for the privilege of using OWA out of school ours. I'm glad I've not opened our OWA up for external use (a political decision from SLT rather than a technical issue) - I definitely would have been caught out by this and I know several schools which should be paying for this already but aren't.

    I would guess that the majority of schools and possibly some LEAs who use OWA for external access are in this position.

  7. #52

    russdev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMcCoy View Post
    You need a better contact

    Office is ONLY AND ALWAYS a DEVICE license!

    And they need to amend the Schools agreement (which I would assume is correct) information in relation to external connectors as it specifically states you can only use it IF you have already purchased the required number of CALS for students.

    Trust me I know who contact is there is not many people higher than this person in Microsoft UK.

    Tony if could get them to confirm on office license and what to ask for would be useful.

  8. #53
    enjay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    At what point did I need a new licence?
    So long as you are still using the same power cable, you should be okay ;-)

  9. #54
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    If the Motherboard is being replaced under warranty, due to failure, then the OEM can legitimately re-install an OS
    But if I am replacing it myself outside warranty, due to failure, I can't? Well that's a bit odd...

  10. #55
    DMcCoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russdev View Post
    Trust me I know who contact is there is not many people higher than this person in Microsoft UK.

    Tony if could get them to confirm on office license and what to ask for would be useful.
    I don't care who they are, I do not sign legal agreements to "their" interpretation of the license agreement. All agreement are based on the terms and conditions laid out by the volume license network operations centre. If thier view of the license is different then the documentation must be changed to accurately reflect the terms of the agreement.

    What will and won't be prosecuted is not what defines how you interperet it!

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMcCoy View Post
    I don't care who they are, I do not sign legal agreements to "their" interpretation of the license agreement. All agreement are based on the terms and conditions laid out by the volume license network operations centre. If thier view of the license is different then the documentation must be changed to accurately reflect the terms of the agreement.

    What will and won't be prosecuted is not what defines how you interperet it!
    I agree with you there ... but if we can get what their interpretation of the system is we can then go back and tell them what needs changing to reflect it.

    The whole MS licence system needs a shake up and some of that is being done.

    For everything mentioned I am trying to get the links to the relative documents on this too. Without those we cannot get a FAQ created.

    However, do give a bit of leeway with me here ... trying to use a variety of scenarios and then evidence them looks like it might be the best way. The crux of the issue is now with terminal servers and applications run on them. I have had 3 different explanations of the External Connector from resellers previously and only one, Ramesys, came close to the reality.

    If we buy from a reseller, we are relying on the resellers interpretation for a chunk of the time. THe FAQ is aimed at making sure you are not ripped off for too many licences, you are not fobbed off with getting too few, and that you have the right versions for what you need.

    And this is before I have even gotten into Adobe, Symantec, Apple, Serif or the host of smaller companies. I don't think I will even touch Capita and SIMS!

    Remember folks ... if you have the information and the links to it please do as DMcCoy is doing and post them in.

  12. #57


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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    The whole MS licence system needs a shake up and some of that is being done.
    Clearly they need to adopt the GPL

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    DMcCoy's Avatar
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    I'll go easy on you then Tony, I'm just annoyed with Microsofts complete disregard for existing documentation

    You can have free external connectors with schools ageement and other volume licenses anyway! http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...Jul2006)CR.doc

    You have to read this document several times before it makes sense.

    The important bit is this "If you acquire Client Access Licenses (CALs) for products that offer External Connector licenses to cover your students and faculty/staff for the entire institution...."

    So it then states you get the external connectors for free - it still misses students from the list of users as you have already *had* to buy enough CALs for each student anyway. Please note its student *alumni* that get a license granted - alumni being *previous* students who have now left.

    This is one of the reasons why I'm contesting that their view doesn't tie up with existing documentation. My Office info on the pervious page was taken directly from the latest office licensing guidelines (for 2007).

    "Licensing basics
    A license for Office provides the right to install and use a copy of the software on one personal
    computer or other device such as a thin client
    . Customers who buy an Ofice license through
    Volume Licensing or as a Full Packaged Product may also install an additional copy of the software
    on a second, portable device for the exclusive use of the primary user of the irst copy of the
    software. Customers who buy an Ofice license through Volume Licensing may install and use any
    number of copies of the software and of any prior version of the software on the licensed device."

    Thats from the Licensing resellers handbook. (text copy from foxit was a bit iffy - spelling is correct on original!)

  14. #59
    DMcCoy's Avatar
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    Any updates? It's gone suspiciously quiet, leading me to believe that I'm right :P

    Of course, I always believe that I'm right. It saves time

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    You are not right .. merely correct. All blokes should understand that.

    In truth I am playing catch up on work for the school and LA, and have not had chance to respond to Microsoft's last email. I'll try and get onto it at the end of the week.

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