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Educational Software Thread, The Licensing FAQ in Technical; It's not limited to 500 Users, it's limited to 500 computers on a site. You can have 50,000 people use ...
  1. #31
    mrforgetful's Avatar
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    It's not limited to 500 Users, it's limited to 500 computers on a site. You can have 50,000 people use it if you like, or 5 people rotating computers every half hour.

    So in summary:;

    As many Users as you like
    Up to 500 computers on a single site

    Seems it falls into the Site License category more than the User License category.

    Of course if you don't think it's reasonable, buy all the software licenses seperately

    Anyway I hardly think they're gonna send you to prison for that extra 1 computer, but if you feel they might then just miss one out. I'm sure there's a computer that wont' run it anyway, you'll need a Gig of RAM really...

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones View Post
    Perhaps, but remember that many volume licences also state that the user must all be on the same site.

    I think that if the licence is limited to 500 users, they should start calling it that - continuing to offer the ridiculous educational discount naturally, but just call it what it is.
    But its a 500 *computer* limit, there is no user limit. The old Macromedia licenses used to be based on the number of pupils a school had. That's why we need a license FAQ

    If you have more than 500 machines then considering their annual maintenance cost, one or more abode license shouldn't be an issue.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrforgetful View Post
    It's not limited to 500 Users, it's limited to 500 computers on a site.
    As I said, in my book that isn't a site licence, it's a 500 client/device licence. A site licence permits use of the software on all PCs on the site; this one does not do that so isn't a site licence.

  4. #34
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    To be fair it's an 'Educational Site' license, maybe in Adobe's eyes Educational sites have no more than 500 computers.

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    Ok folks ... here are a few points that have been clarified by the Microsoft UK Education team.

    Microsoft Licensing – Common Misconceptions!

    We all agree, even people in the Microsoft Education Group, that licensing is complex. We, like our customers, would very much like to see simplification. The good news is that several licensing improvements are planned. The bad news is that these need to be consistently applied on a worldwide basis and so they will take a while to be implemented. In the meantime let me try and clarify some common questions about Microsoft licensing.

    Operating System Licences

    The Microsoft Operating System licence that ships with a PC, lives and dies with the device and can never be transferred. So, the most cost effective way to licence a Microsoft OS in Education is to buy the cheapest possible OEM licence version, such as Vista Home, and then use a volume licence agreement to upgrade to your licence version of choice. If schools receive donated PCs that have been completely wiped, an operating system must first be installed before it can be upgraded. The volume licence agreement only allows upgrades and never fresh installations. The good news is that Microsoft has a programme to cater for this eventuality called Fresh Start. Select the UK at the link below:

    http://www.microsoft.com/Education/F.../FSSplash.aspx

    The Fresh Start programme has been created specifically for primary and secondary schools to help eliminate confusion about whether donated personal computers have a legitimate operating system licence. The programme provides licence documentation and Windows installation CDs—at no cost—for an original Windows 2000 operating system on qualifying donated personal computers.

    Here's how it works: a school completes a short online application. Once Microsoft has reviewed and approved the application, it will provide the school with a letter that serves as proof of valid Windows 2000 licenses for its donated personal computers. Microsoft will also provide one copy of the software on CD for customers who have received donated personal computers.


    Client Access Licences and External Connectors

    This is one of the areas where we are hoping for some simplification. The external connector option on products such as Exchange and SharePoint are for use by non-employees. So, in the case of a school this would include students, parents, governors and anyone not employed by the school or local authority. Even then this is a grey area, but for the purposes of this discussion, a teacher (or their device) requires a CAL whilst all other users can be licensed via a User/Device CAL or external connector, whichever is the cheaper.

    One additional piece of information which may be useful, is that Microsoft considers the parent to be licensed where the student has a valid licence. So, this needs to be applied sensibly, but in the case of SharePoint for example, a student CAL or external connector would also cover parental access.

    When using Client Access Licences (CALs), there is normally a choice of licensing either the device or the user. Licensing the device in a school environment is often the most cost effective choice as there are typically fewer devices than there are users. The other potential option, is a processor licences. SQL would be a good example where a processor licence, that covers everyone accessing the system, can often be more cost effective.

    The other thing to watch out for is cheaper licences for students. For example, there are Student CALs for Exchange.
    Ok ... this is probably going to raise a heap more questions and requests for clarifications but the big one for me is that the external connector licence is to cover those who are not employees ... and that includes students! If you are running MOSS2007, Exchange or other Server system that requires a CAL to connect (eg Terminal Servers) then you are likely to require an external connector licence.

    Ok ... anyone have any questions to bounce back to the team?

  6. Thanks to GrumbleDook from:

    pete (4th February 2008)

  7. #36
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    "An example of an external user is a person who is not an employee or similar personnel of the company or its affiliates"

    I think they need to clarify the terms of the external connector as I'm sure if you ask someone else at Microsoft they will give a different answer - we need a more substantial license document really.

    You could easily argue that a student is "similar personnel or affiliate".

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    More rules for those with schools agreements

    http://www.microsoft.com/education/serveraccess.mspx

    Oddly enough it makes no mention of the students themselves

    An External Connector license for the applicable product(s). This license can be used to provide server access to the following communities:

    Prospective students

    Alumni (student and faculty/staff)

    Students and faculty/staff of collaborating academic institutions or government institutions
    Note: You are required to purchase External Connector licenses or CALs for use by any other communities.

    So one part of MS says yes, and another says no
    Last edited by DMcCoy; 4th February 2008 at 01:31 PM.

  9. #38


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    Here's how it works: a school completes a short online application. Once Microsoft has reviewed and approved the application, it will provide the school with a letter that serves as proof of valid Windows 2000 licenses for its donated personal computers. Microsoft will also provide one copy of the software on CD for customers who have received donated personal computers.
    This sounds good because a windows 2000 license has a built in device CAL - can I use these 'free' windows 2000 licenses instead of buying TS CALs for my 300 linux terminals.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    This sounds good because a windows 2000 license has a built in device CAL - can I use these 'free' windows 2000 licenses instead of buying TS CALs for my 300 linux terminals.
    Not quite

    Personal computers must be received as a donation.
    Personal computers must be previously used.
    Personal computers, to the best of your knowledge, must have had an original Windows operating system previously installed.
    Only personal computers with Intel Pentium III (or equivalent) and older processors are eligible for inclusion in this programme.
    The school must retain ownership of the personal computers licensed through this programme and cannot transfer Windows operating system licence to students or other external organisations.

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    Also I'd like clarification on the MSOffice with terminal services. If I have an external connector TS license - how many MSOfice licenses do I need? One for each device? one for each server? one for each user? or can I just guess?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    Also I'd like clarification on the MSOffice with terminal services. If I have an external connector TS license - how many MSOfice licenses do I need? One for each device? one for each server? one for each user? or can I just guess?
    Office doesn't qualify for external connector access.





    Licensing Microsoft Desktop Applications for Use with Windows Server Terminal Services

    Microsoft licenses its desktop applications on a per-device basis. Per-device licensing means a customer must obtain a license for each desktop on or from which the product is used or accessed. For example, when a desktop application is accessed remotely across an organization using Windows Server Terminal Services, a separate desktop application license is required for each desktop from which the application is accessed.

    Use of Microsoft desktop applications in a Terminal Services environment requires that the license acquired for the desktops from which the desktop application is remotely accessed matches the suite/edition, components, language, and version of the copy of the application being accessed. For example:

    Product (or suite): Microsoft Office Standard 2007 and Microsoft Office Professional Plus 2007 are different products (or suites). A desktop licensed for Office Standard 2007 may not remotely access and use Office Professional Plus 2007.
    Components: A license for a suite (e.g., a Microsoft Office system suite) for the accessing desktop must have exactly the same components as the copy of the Microsoft Office suite being remotely accessed.
    Language: The English/multilanguage version of the Microsoft Office suite may not be accessed remotely from a desktop, which is licensed for a single language version of the Microsoft Office suite. Likewise, remote access to a licensed copy of Microsoft Office Multi-Language Pack 2007 requires the accessing desktop be licensed for the Office Multi-Language Pack 2007.
    Version: Microsoft Office 2003 and the 2007 Microsoft Office system are different versions. You may not remotely access the 2007 Microsoft Office system from a desktop that is licensed for Microsoft Office 2003.

    With the release of the 2007 Microsoft Office system, generally only licenses obtained through the Microsoft Volume Licensing Program can be deployed to a network server for remote access. Most retail (full packaged product) and original equipment manufacturer (OEM) licenses for products released in the 2007 release timeframe do not permit network use.

  13. 2 Thanks to DMcCoy:

    CyberNerd (4th February 2008), ZeroHour (5th March 2008)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMcCoy View Post
    Use of Microsoft desktop applications in a Terminal Services environment requires that the license acquired for the desktops from which the desktop application is remotely accessed matches the suite/edition, components, language, and version of the copy of the application being accessed. For example:
    I thought so. So despite the fact that students can access terminal services from home with an external connector license (£1500) - we'd need to spend 1800*£30 = £54,000 on office licenses.

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    The Microsoft Operating System licence that ships with a PC, lives and dies with the device and can never be transferred
    Even that is still too vague - how do you define "the device"? Which component pieces specifically make up "the device", and if the answer is 'all of them' then a memory upgrade or swapping a CD for a DVD would negate the OS licence; even if it refers to the disk - which is, after all, where the OS actually resides - that still prevents the use of a larger hard disk (as some of us have taken to doing for video editing PCs). That leaves, I suppose, the mainboard, which calls into question those PCs where I've swapped faulty mainboards - does that I've negated the OEM licence on those PCs?

    As I see it, all possible interpretations of "the device" are heavily flawed for purposes of OEM licences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    I thought so. So despite the fact that students can access terminal services from home with an external connector license (£1500) - we'd need to spend 1800*£30 = £54,000 on office licenses.
    Potentially even more if students use it on more than one computer!

    Office is where MS makes a large percentage of their money - you can see why!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones View Post
    Even that is still too vague - how do you define "the device"? Which component pieces specifically make up "the device", and if the answer is 'all of them' then a memory upgrade or swapping a CD for a DVD would negate the OS licence; even if it refers to the disk - which is, after all, where the OS actually resides - that still prevents the use of a larger hard disk (as some of us have taken to doing for video editing PCs). That leaves, I suppose, the mainboard, which calls into question those PCs where I've swapped faulty mainboards - does that I've negated the OEM licence on those PCs?

    As I see it, all possible interpretations of "the device" are heavily flawed for purposes of OEM licences.
    It is generally regarded (and I will request clarification) to be deemed 'the whole of the parts', ie an individual part does not hold the OEM licence but the collection of parts does. Should parts be removed for upgrade or repair then it is taken that the majority shall still hold the licence.

    The example I was given last year was to consider what a reseller might deem as a 'new' machine under warranty. If you have the MB swapped due to failure it is still the whole machine covered under warranty. If you swap the memory then the memory is no longer under warranty and is not deemed part of the whole machine and is there for not covered for those thinking about what is the original machine. Once the majority of the machine is changed outside of warranties or repair (repair being replacing like for like, not like for nearest new equivalent) then it is no longer the original box and does not meet the requirements of the OEM. Then again, if you purchased the licence with an individual piece of hardware (eg Mouse) then when you move the mouse you move the licence ...

    I'll get the above checked though.

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