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Educational Software Thread, Free EYFS Profile Software in Technical; One of my school headteachers found this https://orbit.so which seems to be a fully functional, free EYFS Profile builder a ...
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    SimpleSi's Avatar
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    Free EYFS Profile Software

    One of my school headteachers found this
    https://orbit.so

    which seems to be a fully functional, free EYFS Profile builder a la 2Simple's 2BuildAProfile and FingerTips.

    They say they intend to keep the app free for schools and get income from advertising to parents.

    regards

    Simon

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    Anyone else using this? I demonstrated the 2simple app to our head today which went down quite well. This looks to good to be true - which always makes me nervous.

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    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    Just a simple point... Whatever you do, please make your SLT consider the Data Protection implications of the devices on which it is used. Personal devices are unencrypted and could be lost, stolen, sold... all with personal data of the EYFS children on them. The fines are MASSIVE!

    In my opinion, it should NEVER be used on personal devices of staff.

    As it can be used to take photographs of the children, this would be contrary to our Staff AUP which expressly forbids using their personal phones and cameras for photographing children.

    I'd be interested in @GrumbleDook 's opinion on this.
    Last edited by elsiegee40; 28th November 2012 at 05:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    Just a simple point... Whatever you do, please make your SLT consider the Data Protection implications of the devices on which it is used. Personal devices are unencrypted and could be lost, stolen, sold... all with personal data of the EYFS children on them..........

    As it can be used to take photographs of the children, this would be contrary to our Staff AUP which expressly using their personal phones and cameras for photographing children..
    Completely agree. This was always implied in our AUP, but it's just been made explicit. If we do go with this or another system, devices will be bought for the purpose and secured in school. I would also employ the apps which allow remote wiping of devices in the event of loss. iOS devices should be encrypted if you use a pass code or PIN, but I haven't seen that demonstrated.

    One of the reasons I asked the question is to find out if orbit have any kind of reputation. My biggest concern with both of these systems is what happens to the data off the devices - they all sync to the providers' servers. Orbit's website gives details of their registration with the ICO. I spoke to the people from 2simple and it is UK hosted and encrypted with no access for their employees.

    On the up side, I think they could be transformational in terms of the ease of gathering evidence of attainment against the hundreds of criteria in the Early Years framework.

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    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmak View Post
    On the up side, I think they could be transformational in terms of the ease of gathering evidence of attainment against the hundreds of criteria in the Early Years framework.
    I couldn't agree more

    Quote Originally Posted by jmak View Post
    iOS devices should be encrypted if you use a pass code or PIN, but I haven't seen that demonstrated.
    But what is to force the staff to put a PIN on a personal device? What incentive is there for them to use a number that's not easily guessed? And what stops them from removing it or changing it on a school owned one?
    Last edited by elsiegee40; 28th November 2012 at 06:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    But what is to force the staff to put a PIN on a personal device? What incentive is there for them to use a number that's not easily guessed? And what stops them from removing it or changing it on a school owned one?
    Hopefully a combination of their professionalism the advice we offer and the mention of disciplinary action, individual criminal liability and large fines.

    And adhering to the AUP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    Just a simple point... Whatever you do, please make your SLT consider the Data Protection implications of the devices on which it is used. Personal devices are unencrypted and could be lost, stolen, sold... all with personal data of the EYFS children on them. The fines are MASSIVE!

    In my opinion, it should NEVER be used on personal devices of staff.

    As it can be used to take photographs of the children, this would be contrary to our Staff AUP which expressly forbids using their personal phones and cameras for photographing children.

    I'd be interested in @GrumbleDook 's opinion on this.
    I would also go with never on a personal device due the camera function ... I would have to see if it sticks a copy of the picture in the local camera roll. If not then you could get away with it ... It depends on what else it stores locally, but remember the amount of personal data that a teacher may have on a home machine due to marking, planning, etc ... It is hard to say never on a personal device.

    The fact that it is a mobile phone makes it more accessible as a target for theft or increasing the chances of loss. This has to be taken into consideration in your risk analysis on the data protection. The locking of IOS devices (complex pass phrase and not just a PIN) combined with setting the device to wipe after x attempts (10 by default but can be set lower via application of a profile via MDM) is a good move on school *and* personal devices. Explain to staff about people seeing all their text messages, accessing their personal FB account, personal emails, etc and see how quickly they lock their phones!

    To be honest, they seem have done a lot of work on this and it could be a good app. Before I would use I would have to take a closer look at their entry with the ICO to see who they are sharing data with (their data protection section only talks about how they will process it, not who it might be shared with or who will process it as a result) and I *really* don't like the section about me owning the data, but they have the rights to use, repurpose, etc forever ... If I upload a photo of a child's work I do *not* want them to have eternal rights to it ... but that is a personal stance on IPR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    ... I *really* don't like the section about me owning the data, but they have the rights to use, repurpose, etc forever ... If I upload a photo of a child's work I do *not* want them to have eternal rights to it ...
    I don't think the child's parents would be too impressed either. We have to get permission to take photos for school purposes. taking photos for school purposes and storing them where someone else claims ownership is "well dodgy"! It feels like a facebook clause!

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    I really like the idea of getting our EYFS dept to ditch the digital cameras and stop printing dozens of pictures in full colour for the kids folders, I'd much rather have the data on site and not be locked into Apple hardware though

    The 2simple software isn't all that expensive really but again the data's kept on their servers

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    Shall we take a reality check

    A photograph of little Tommy building a house with Lego with some text saying look how he's doing - he's now at level 1 in construction is not a danger to Tommy.

    Now, if it had his home address and the nights his mother goes out to bingo and leaves him with his 12 yr old sister babysitting on her own then their might be some cause for concern.


    Simon

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    We are not talking paedophiles here @SimpleSi

    The issues are:

    1. Data Protection
    EYFS Data is incredibly detailed information about the progress of a child... or lack of it which happens to use photos as part of the evidence. If it were to get into the wrong hands, it would definitely be a DPA breach.

    Security of the device is paramount.

    2. Ownership of data.
    Assuming the parents give permission for the school to photograph the child, have they given permission for the company storing the data to use those images? Grumbledook suggests that is what the T&Cs say could happen. As a parent I'd be furious were this to happen.

    I feel that my most major concern is option 1. If not managed properly by the school, it turns an incredibly useful bit of software into a fast-track massive DPA fine.

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    @SimpleSi as a parent, if I found that little Eric's picture had been taken I would be fine with that and sign an agreement on it ... If the school / nursery wants to use it in their website / marketing materials or as part of a resource for staff CPD or to help other children / families in the school / nursery I could agree to it ... But to have the school host that photo with a company that has the right to reuse it for its own sales and marketing, long after little Eric has left the nursery ... Then I would take umbrage.

    The fact that I might not have given the school / nursery to hand that data over to a third party to be processed (privacy notices folks!) or if I have and it is subsequently used for things I did not agree to (sales and marketing) is a breach of the DPA on the part of the school.

    I am careful where I store pics of my little one and this is especially important for looked after children / children in care / vulnerable children. There seems to be no way of including them as an exception so in my initial risk analysis that would rule this system out. Perhaps with dialogue with the provider things could be sorted ... But not right now.
    Last edited by GrumbleDook; 28th November 2012 at 11:05 PM.

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    We would like to comment on some of the queries raised in this thread:

    Orbit Early Years is a web based application with a complementary iOS app, therefore does not need to be used exclusively on iOS devices. The Orbit Early Years app does allow the taking of photographs, but these (and any other information stored in Orbit) are not stored on the device when taken through the app. All information recorded through Orbit is immediately saved to our secure cloud storage, therefore if devices are lost or stolen there is no data loss and from a safeguarding perspective this mitigates the risk of information falling into the wrong hands.

    We do not, and will not, ever use images stored with us for marketing or publicity purposes, and we are very clear about this on the terms on our website. We do not use data stored with us for any commercial benefit. You retain ownership of the data, however we need a licence to use the data that is input in order to provide the service to other users, such as your colleagues and the children's parents.

    If anyone has any further questions about our software please contact us via our website and we will be happy to respond.

    The Orbit Team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrbitApplications View Post
    We would like to comment on some of the queries raised in this thread:

    Orbit Early Years is a web based application with a complementary iOS app, therefore does not need to be used exclusively on iOS devices. The Orbit Early Years app does allow the taking of photographs, but these (and any other information stored in Orbit) are not stored on the device when taken through the app. All information recorded through Orbit is immediately saved to our secure cloud storage, therefore if devices are lost or stolen there is no data loss and from a safeguarding perspective this mitigates the risk of information falling into the wrong hands.

    We do not, and will not, ever use images stored with us for marketing or publicity purposes, and we are very clear about this on the terms on our website. We do not use data stored with us for any commercial benefit. You retain ownership of the data, however we need a licence to use the data that is input in order to provide the service to other users, such as your colleagues and the children's parents.

    If anyone has any further questions about our software please contact us via our website and we will be happy to respond.

    The Orbit Team.
    Thank you for this. I feel much happier about this now. How about you @GrumbleDook?

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    Many thanks for your reply ... it covers off a lot of concerns but there are a few things that you might want to word a little better.

    When you upload or otherwise submit data content to Orbit Services, you give Orbit Applications Limited a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, communicate, publish, and distribute such content. The rights that you grant in this license are subject to the terms of our Data and Privacy Policy and are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, improving, and developing Orbit Services. This license continues even if you stop using our services.
    The above really does give you a carte blanche to do a fair few things that you have said you won't, if you look at it carefully. You don't explicitly mention that you are processing the data purely to deliver the service you are supplying to the school / EYP. A company without ethics could take the above to mean that operating simply means delivering the service, promoting means sales and marketing (remembering that I have just signed all rights over to you on this even though you have just said you won't use the data for this), improving and developing (always a good thing ... but who looks at the data to help with this? Do you have a 3rd party development team or is it purely in house?)

    And then you say that you can do any or all of the above even after we have stopped using the service? Can you outline your processes for what would happen if an EYP provider says that all data has to be removed and destroyed (part of their risk analysis around data protection).

    I know it might seem that I am being very negative but I am just trying to show how things can have emphasis in the hands of the wrong people ... there are some dodgy operators out there.

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