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Educational IT Jobs Thread, General Advice for Job Applicants in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by rad Question If the Person Spec requires you to have a degree (or degree prefered) but if ...
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    somabc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rad View Post
    Question

    If the Person Spec requires you to have a degree (or degree prefered) but if you don't have one but have 10 years of ICT experience, could you still apply and prove yourself with the experience you have?
    Yes definitely nobody cares about your degree in an interview, at least in my experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    You won't get a job in education then as safeguarding rules require that ALL candidates fill in an application form. As for whether there is space on the form for what you want to put, all the forms I see have at least half a page where you can write what you like and they invite you to continue on another page if you need to. So how is that not enough space for you to put down these 'critcal things'?
    And lazy recruiters not bothering to read a CV - excuse me, but they are the ones with the job, not you, so taking that high and mighty line isnt going to get you anywhere. YOUR CV may be a thing of beauty and a joy forever but many arent and it is easy for a recruiter to miss a vital bit of information due to the CV being written in a different order. 'Lazy' doesnt come into it when you have 45 CVs to read and they are all laid out differently and the relevant information (usually skills and current job) are not easily seen.
    "Why are you right for the position" is there to see how YOU feel that you match the job - it is interesting to see what people say - by the tone of your post you would say something like "because I am the best and you just KNOW it" which might give the recruiter an insight into your mindset
    It also gives people whose CV might not 'quite' match the job a chance to explain how their expertise and experience DOES allow them to believe that they can do the job.
    Dismissing application forms out of hand will not get you very far, my friend
    I have already been in Education and left again for the private sector. I just hate application forms. I fail to see how they safe guard children in any way that couldn't be accomplished without the form. It's duplicate work and I suppose what we should ask if why the private sector doesn't feel the need to use them for every single role. I think only one I have applied for required an application form. One could argue that application forms put people who are crap are writing "I am amazing" in a succinct way, at a disadvantage? I just don't see any pros to an application form aside from "I can't be bothered doing the leg work that comes with employing someone". Then again the public sector isn't exactly known for it's efficiencies .

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    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    The reason schools are told to use application forms is so that all applications are mde in an identical way and we are comparing like with like. It also means that we get answers to all the basic questions and can see things like gaps in employment history easily and ask about them at interview.

    I don't necessarily agree with everything on the Safer Recruitment front, but the standard application form has highlighted possible issues with two candidates that I have interviewed in recent months. In both cases, the suspicions turned out to be well founded and one saved us from making a big mistake.

    If anyone wants to know more about Safer Recruitment in schools, you can do this free online training course. You don't have to do it all in one go, but it doesn't take long. It does help to explain why schools are doing things the way they do.
    Safer Recruitment - FREE online training

  4. 2 Thanks to elsiegee40:

    GrumbleDook (26th October 2011), znova (27th October 2011)

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    Safer recruitment now applies to private schools as well, so you won't avoid the dreaded application form that way anymore.
    As for not bothering to do the 'leg work' - why should they? If they get 45 CVs for a job and 3 fit the requirements, then why would they need to bother to traipse through your quirkily written CV for the info they need.
    If you are selling something - and in this case, you are - yourself - you don't leave it under the counter in its locked box, do you? You lay it out on the counter, showing all its advantages.
    Leaving a prospective employer the task of unlocking the box is not going to help you.
    Remember also, that in quite a few cases, the person looking at the CV is looking for buzzwords, because they are not technical. If the application is done via a form, then they know where to look, but in a many-paged CV they may miss the relevant info or indeed not bother to look for it at all.
    Like elsie, I don't agree with all aspects of Safer Recruitment but it is useful, particularly when the person interviewing has no training in how to interview - which is something I think should be addressed

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    If anyone wants to know more about Safer Recruitment in schools, you can do this free online training course. You don't have to do it all in one go, but it doesn't take long. It does help to explain why schools are doing things the way they do.
    Safer Recruitment - FREE online training
    Thanks for that! I don't know how I missed that one. I will bring this up in the next governors' meeting as we have to have someone to cover maternity leave soon.

    I could have done with the training during the last interview marathon...

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    The other reason for application forms over CV's, is the likelyhood that the applicant themselves has written it is much higher.

    There are plenty of CV writing services or pre-made CV's out there, so can you be sure that the really good looking CV in front of you was written by the person, or is that person actually a hairy troll that literally lives under a bridge and just has a high-class CV they send out occasionally so they can collect benefits.

    Something else I've always made a point of doing, is putting SOMETHING about what I do outside of work, and where possible point out the relevance of it. If you don't do anything outside of work except eat, sleep, watch TV and occasionally PUB, then it might be worth looking for something to do, even if it's just model making.
    Most places want individuals with a personality, and not just a mindless automaton. Hell being a 'pro gamer' is still better than doing nothing, as at least you're interacting with other people!

    And lastly, never be afraid of actually applying.

    I came across a job advert a few days ago for £100k for a high-end global IT manager, and I met 9/10 of their requirements (they were pretty horribly vague I'll admit). I dont ever expect to hear back from them, but you never know!

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    All i can say is that your cv must give accurate detail to your employeer and only tell the degree that you actually have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rad View Post
    Question

    If the Person Spec requires you to have a degree (or degree prefered) but if you don't have one but have 10 years of ICT experience, could you still apply and prove yourself with the experience you have?
    Yes, it worked for me. I don't have a degree, the job I have been doing for over 2 years said applicants should have one. I applied as I had 12 years experience at that point, offered an interview and was the only one of 5 to be called back and was give the job.

  10. Thanks to Danp from:

    rad (24th January 2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danp View Post
    Yes, it worked for me. I don't have a degree, the job I have been doing for over 2 years said applicants should have one. I applied as I had 12 years experience at that point, offered an interview and was the only one of 5 to be called back and was give the job.
    Indeed. My application stated a minimum of three years experience in IT. I was 18 at the time, working with IT Technicians as work experience. I was offered an interview and the people I were against were 30+ and had years of experience.

    And I got the job... So I wouldn't always trust what a personal specification asks for.

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    I have to say that I don't bother with recruitment agencies anymore, I have never even had an acknowledgement of an application let alone an interview. In fact, I am dubious as to whether a lot of the advertised jobs still exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NikChillin View Post
    I have to say that I don't bother with recruitment agencies anymore, I have never even had an acknowledgement of an application let alone an interview. In fact, I am dubious as to whether a lot of the advertised jobs still exist.
    You may well be right although that is illegal. However, quite a few companies exclusively use recruitment companies so if you don't send them your CV you will not be able to access that company. I can name you three in my immediate area
    IMHO (ex recruitment/headhunter) your CV should go out everywhere - even the "office" agencies sometimes get sent IT jobs that they blithely try and recruit for - you might have a good chance.
    Yes, if you think you could do the job and can back that up with experience, then do go for a job even though it is asking for more experience and a qualification you don't have. You might be lucky to find a recruiter who knows what they are looking at

    Bit of a necro thread but good advice always bears repeating



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