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Educational IT Jobs Thread, Network Manager positions in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; It would yes but it is a "new position" and although the current network manager might be a match for ...
  1. #16

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    It would yes but it is a "new position" and although the current network manager might be a match for it. Technically so am I. Also what seems unfair is this is combined with a TuPe transfer so basically all the techies, me included are getting fobbed off come january. By law if its a new position, which it is don't they have to advertise and allow us to interview for it? all the admin staff who currently do multiple roles are being told they can apply for multiple ring fenced jobs but I can't?

  2. #17
    somabc's Avatar
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    TBH even if they did let you apply it is likely they would hire the NM simply as he is seen to to be doing the job already so will win on experience rather than your qualifications.

    Guidance on transfer of school staff to academies

    In the immediate future when schools convert to academy status, teachers and support staff will retain their current contractual rights. Similarly, whatever arrangements currently apply to school support staff - whether this is based on the national agreement negotiated within the National Joint Council for local government services in respect of staff in community schools, or other local arrangements which apply to staff in foundation schools and voluntary aided schools - will transfer.
    As your NM has a contract he will be moved as NM. If the School were to appoint you as NM then would still have to give the old NM the same job title and pay, so there is no incentive for the School to Interview for the position.
    Last edited by somabc; 23rd September 2010 at 08:33 PM.

  3. #18

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    Perhaps but it would be nice to get an opportunity to at least interview, ah well another bad experience coming up here guess I'll have to look for another job as nobody seems to know what will happen to the techies come january, nothing has even been mentioned.

  4. #19
    somabc's Avatar
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    IF TUPE applies you will be moved to the Academy at the same pay/job title. So a NM, a senior tech (you) and 2 other techs (who may or may not be classed as senior depending on their current J/D)

  5. #20

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    I just can't seem to get any opportunities to advance, this is the 2nd school now I don't want to be a techie forever but can't seem to nail any NM interviews I get either :-(

  6. #21
    somabc's Avatar
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    Don't let this put you off!

  7. #22

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    As said, Do not let us, or your experience put you off. If you didnt get the job, you were not right for it, ask for a debrief after EVERY interview, even if you get a job. This helps you learn where you went wrong and can improve in the future.

    Whilst you have some good qualifications, experience is key, in ANY job. You may not have been an NM before, but that does not mean you do not know how to delegate work or lead people, but have you thought about getting any management NVQs on top?

  8. #23

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    I've thought about it but just don't know where to start. I have 5 years experience currently in an education setting progressing through junior it technician to senior ict technician.

    To be honest I think most of the time they aren't even looking for someone technical.

    I did go on a 2 day course titled "Managing a technical support team" which was run by Research machines, although it was an RM course it had no connection to the RM networks, it was completely a leadership course.

  9. #24

    nephilim's Avatar
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    well as senior tech, you have obviously done well in some form of leadership training, but an NVQ holds much more weight, as its more generic and covers a broader spectrum, from there you can work on drilling it down to a technical management course etc.

    I have 4 years experience in education, but 8 years overall in ICT. I worked up from junior tech to NM, but that was hard work, and I had to prove I had what it takes. Since doing so, everything runs like clock work (aside from user error).

    If you give me a PM, I will see about sending you a list of what I done and why and how it has helped!

  10. #25

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    Does anyone know if you can be transferred under Tupe regulations if your current position does not exist within the new structure i.e. if the job title/description and pay are different?

    Or does it merely go off the content of your job?

    Do staff even have to be transferred by law or can they just say "Sorry we don't need someone in your position in the new structure"

  11. #26
    somabc's Avatar
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    They can transfer you on the same pay / conditions but give you a new job title. There are 'get out clauses' however but these are extremely limited.

    Any dismissals will be automatically unfair, where the sole or principal reason for the dismissal is the transfer or a reason connected to the transfer, unless it is for an economical, technical or organisational reason (an "ETO" reason) requiring a change in the workforce. This defence is narrow in scope and can be difficult to rely upon. Even if the employer can rely upon an ETO defence and the dismissal is not automatically unfair, it may still be unfair for other reasons (such as a failure to consult properly in a redundancy situation).
    Legally they are obliged to keep you informed so if you feel they are not doing this you should raise the issue.

    Outgoing employer must inform and consult with staff

    Employers involved in a business transfer must inform and consult with appropriate representatives of the affected employees about the transfer and any measures proposed. Certain specified information must be provided to the representatives long enough before the transfer to enable the outgoing employer to consult with them about it.

    If there are any changes or proposals for changes following the transfer, these "measures" will have to be discussed with the representatives of the affected employees The incoming employer is required to provide the outgoing employer with information on proposed measures to allow the outgoing employer to comply with their duty to inform and consult. There is no set timetable for consultation, but the larger the transaction and the more staff affected, the longer the timetable will need to be.

    If there is a failure to inform and consult, a complaint can be made to the Employment Tribunal. If successful, the Tribunal can award whatever compensation it considers just and equitable having regard to the seriousness of the employer's failure up to a maximum of 13 weeks' pay per affected employee. Information and consultation failures can now result in joint and several liability between the outgoing and incoming employers, unless the contract governing the transfer clearly caters for apportionment of liability here.
    Basic Guide to TUPE | OUT-LAW.COM by Pinsent Masons LLP
    Transfers of employment contracts : Directgov - Employment
    Last edited by somabc; 23rd September 2010 at 08:44 PM.

  12. #27

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    So I guess there is nothing I can do then. Our current Network Manager is going to transfer to the Academy as ICT Services Manager completely un-apposed as the other school does not have a Network Manager that could also be considered eligible for the position.

    As it happens they are only going to offer it to people who are currently doing a similar role which means IT Technicians cannot even apply for it. I can understand the fairness argument of all this but shouldn't the academy be looking purely at who is the best suited for the position not just giving it to the person who currently does the job? there will be a new job description and person specification and while most of the content of the position may be the same I cannot apply even though I fill in for the NM in their absense and I have also had the experience of managing a network.

    They are saying it would be unfair if they allowed me to go for the position as the current NM would then have to drop down as a techie when the transfer occurs, they do not want to do this due to a legal aspect and a moral one as it would be unfair to uproot those currently in similar positions. They are stressing there will be "no" redundancies and if someone goes for a job they don't get, they will still be re-located within the academy where the academy see's fit.

    In this scenario, if the Business Manager's from either school go for the Business manager position and one does not get it, they will be slotted in as finance officer. Problem here is there already is a finance officer so wouldn't that be up-rooting them? this would mean they would have to drop down to finance assistant?

    It all seems fair but from a one sided point and in my opinion it smacks of double standards, how can you point blank dismiss staff from putting their name forward for any position if they feel they can do the job, and can prove it?

    With regards to an earlier point made by "somabc" we are being told that non-teaching staff are not protected by Tupe for a minimum period, apparantley our conditions are protected during tupe but pay isn't and we won't be given the same protection as teachers which is 3 years. Does this even seem right?

    Just to note further, most positions will have a minimum of 2 people interviewing for the job, one from either school. So if our Business Manager goes for the job but doesn't get it, she will be offered a lower down position. How come this won't be the case with the NM? there is only one NM and how would it be a problem if I went for the job and got it the NM then is offered a lower down position as IT Tech? am I missing something here, seems to be one rule for one and one rule for another?

    It shouldn't be about only offering the job to those currently doing the same or similar role, it should be offered to all internal staff who wish to interview for it, at the end of the day isn't it about establishing who is the best for the position? as of December 31st the two schools close to form an academy which means we are all out of a job technically and seeing as though non-teaching staff have not been offered any protection non-teaching positions should be an open application.
    Last edited by ahunter; 24th September 2010 at 08:34 AM.

  13. #28

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    An MIS Manager has just become available in the school, beginning to contemplate going for it. Although it's not neccesarily something I want to be doing long term, the experience may be beneficial in the short term. I have read through the job spec and person spec and I match up to the IT skills required such as knowledge of databases and SIMS etc. The direction I want to be heading is IT Manager but I think I'm falling short on the management aspect, If I could nail the MIS Manager position it may help me in the future. What do you reckon?

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