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Educational IT Jobs Thread, Good or Bad? in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Support staff had a meeting with the person from the council responsible for our job evaluations this afternoon, and it ...
  1. #16

    beeswax's Avatar
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    Re: Good or Bad?

    Support staff had a meeting with the person from the council responsible for our job evaluations this afternoon, and it was admitted that they didn't really know what our jobs entailed, so we're going to have new evaluations sent out. Our council did what they call a question trace with selected people from various schools in different support jobs. The "trace" means that all the following questions in a section depend on how you answered the first one. Sadly they wouldn't tell us the name of the individual who did this on "behalf" of the IT Technicians, as this post may then have been advertising a vacancy (or two). They (the council rep) all but admitted that those questioned for the most part worked in the primary sector (no offence intended), and the upshot is that almost everyone is going to have a new job evaluation done, and maybe I'll get a chance to do the question trace.
    I'll give you a flavour of the questions, and the answers submitted,
    "Is the jobholder required to develop any plans for actions, activities or events which are to happen some time in the future?"
    and,
    "Is the jobholder ever subject to unavoidable interruptions which make it difficult to complete the job duties?"
    The answer given to the first is NO, and the answer given to the second is NO, RARELY IF EVER.
    And on this are our job evaluations built.
    For those who haven't gone through this process yet, and I shouldn't think there are that many, we were divided into 3 categories, those who took up their posts after the evaluation began, those in "unique" posts, jobs that no one else does (apparently NM's come into this category), and the large middle ground, taking in everyone else. After today's meeting, the unique category has grown and the middle ground has shrunk considerably. It's all got to be sorted by next April, though.
    When the unions gave their views on this the council told them that it was "too late for inclusion" in their considertions.
    We were told that when the eventual final job evaluations and attached grades are handed out, not to expect the new grade/pay scale to match the old one. My (highly coloured) view is that if our salaries can be reduced now it will make us more attractive to "tupe" or port, into private companies.
    If this is not coherent, don't blame me, as I'm only expected to use a keyboard infrequently.

  2. #17

    beeswax's Avatar
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    Re: Good or Bad?

    something to add from the meeting,
    "how come someone doing this job in a primary school is on the same grade as those in a secondary?"
    "It's not about how much work you do, it's about job skills."
    "So how come the head of our 1250 pupil secondary school gets 4 times as much as the head of the 240 pupil primary down the road?"
    I'd like some answers to that conundrum.

  3. #18

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    Re: Good or Bad?

    Just a slight bit of advice if want to keep current wage it is possable but to do it and this is going to link into another thread you have to stop being just a network manager and become educational technologist if you can show the skills and your presence is worth it.

    Head can ask from day your new wage take effect (by way it will be protected for 3 years) that you are moved up to grade that is equal to your old wage so in effect you are given pay rise to make up for lost.

    Talk to your head now and say why they should etc provide proof etc and then be honest and say that cant afford to get wage decrease and will be looking for a new job...

    As wages are down to school to decide who gets what etc??

    Russell

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    Re: Good or Bad?

    When the unions gave their views on this the council told them that it was "too late for inclusion" in their considertions.
    I'd urge anybody who is not in the immediate wave of BSF to get their unions involved *now* so that we are better prepared. All we know for sure is that teachers jobs are protected.

    Our LEA has become a bit cagey about BSF - A unison friend of mine recently asked for all our LEA's documentation regarding BSF under the freedom of information act (it shows what consultation, if any they have done). She was phoned back by a council lawyer asking her to drop the request - it clearly touched a raw nerve with the Council (bearing in mind she does a lot of this sort of thing in her job and has never had a responce like this).

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    Re: Good or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd
    When the unions gave their views on this the council told them that it was "too late for inclusion" in their considertions.
    I'd urge anybody who is not in the immediate wave of BSF to get their unions involved *now* so that we are better prepared. All we know for sure is that teachers jobs are protected.

    Our LEA has become a bit cagey about BSF - A unison friend of mine recently asked for all our LEA's documentation regarding BSF under the freedom of information act (it shows what consultation, if any they have done). She was phoned back by a council lawyer asking her to drop the request - it clearly touched a raw nerve with the Council (bearing in mind she does a lot of this sort of thing in her job and has never had a responce like this).
    oh dear.....

    if I was her then I would ask a friendly journo to request it

    hmm what lea is this maybe edugeek should request it



    Russ

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    Re: Good or Bad?

    oh dear.....

    if I was her then I would ask a friendly journo to request it Smile

    hmm what lea is this maybe edugeek should request it Smile
    Thanks for the offer, I'm on their case and will of course keep you all posted
    They've not refused to give the documentation - that would be illegal.
    I think it would be a good time for *all* edugeek members to start asking questions about exactly what our respective LEA's have in mind for us. Probably your heads/SMT won't know too much (do they ever?). The LEA and UNISON are the people to approach. At least the LEA won't be able to give the 'too late' argument if we act now - even though the outcome (outsourcing) may still be the same.

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    Re: Good or Bad?

    Support staff had a meeting with the person from the council responsible for our job evaluations this afternoon, and it was admitted that they didn't really know what our jobs entailed, so we're going to have new evaluations sent out. Our council did what they call a question trace with selected people from various schools in different support jobs. The "trace" means that all the following questions in a section depend on how you answered the first one. Sadly they wouldn't tell us the name of the individual who did this on "behalf" of the IT Technicians, as this post may then have been advertising a vacancy (or two). They (the council rep) all but admitted that those questioned for the most part worked in the primary sector (no offence intended), and the upshot is that almost everyone is going to have a new job evaluation done, and maybe I'll get a chance to do the question trace.
    I'll give you a flavour of the questions, and the answers submitted,
    "Is the jobholder required to develop any plans for actions, activities or events which are to happen some time in the future?"
    and,
    "Is the jobholder ever subject to unavoidable interruptions which make it difficult to complete the job duties?"
    The answer given to the first is NO, and the answer given to the second is NO, RARELY IF EVER.
    And on this are our job evaluations built.
    For those who haven't gone through this process yet, and I shouldn't think there are that many, we were divided into 3 categories, those who took up their posts after the evaluation began, those in "unique" posts, jobs that no one else does (apparently NM's come into this category), and the large middle ground, taking in everyone else. After today's meeting, the unique category has grown and the middle ground has shrunk considerably. It's all got to be sorted by next April, though.
    When the unions gave their views on this the council told them that it was "too late for inclusion" in their considertions.
    We were told that when the eventual final job evaluations and attached grades are handed out, not to expect the new grade/pay scale to match the old one. My (highly coloured) view is that if our salaries can be reduced now it will make us more attractive to "tupe" or port, into private companies.
    If this is not coherent, don't blame me, as I'm only expected to use a keyboard infrequently.
    I asked said union friend about this:

    "This is all about the Equal Pay Act. Your employer is required to carry out an equal pay audit by Sept. '07. Employers usually do this by the way of job evaluation. Your job should have already been evaluated under an equality proof job evaluation scheme ie. NJC (national joint council) or HAY. You will know if this has been done because you will be on a pay and grading structure - ie is your post already graded into scales? Most employers started this process two or three years ago.

    One of your "colleagues" has completed a job questionairre which will be used to evaluate the role. You have the right to appeal against the evaluation, ask your LEA for the appeals process. You can insist on completing a questionairre yourself. If you are a member of Unison speak to your rep or branch. Your employer has a duty to consult with your Union as this exercise will have an impact on the workforce. You or your branch should contact central Unison if they are having problems negotiating with your employer (you should if your branch is just being crap). Watch that some union reps are reputed to be in the pockets of the employers (cushy full time secondments etc). The "collegue" that did this evaluation is trying to reduce your pay, your employer (collegue) is clearly trying to make your department attractive for out-sourcing. Private companies will not want to run a service that has a high wage bill.
    The downside of a high wage bill (for the LEA) is that redundancy is more likely. Ask the LEA human resorces depatment for the redundancy, redeployment and employment stability policies."

    Head can ask from day your new wage take effect (by way it will be protected for 3 years) that you are moved up to grade that is equal to your old wage so in effect you are given pay rise to make up for lost.
    Pay protection is negotiated. It is not mandatory. There are also equal pay issues surrounding pay protection. check ACAS guidelines.

  8. #23

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Re: Good or Bad?

    Also be aware that if your school is a Foundation School, or is not governed by the LA on HR / pay matters then you must follow the appeals procedure as set down and ratified by your governing body.

    Again ... your union rep will give you advice, and remember that if you are unsure about your local rep then got to your area rep instead.

  9. #24
    mark's Avatar
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    Re: Good or Bad?

    Very interesting Beeswax. Apparently our Job Eval is almost done and our Union guy tells me it's looking quite good for us techies. I can see that might mean some could go for appeals to get the poposed grade they're worth.

    Also, it seems like our grades are very similar to local authority posts in IT, starting at the pay scale for desktop support and up to the top of network support guys. What us techs thought should be the case when we last discussed this 6 months ago.

  10. #25

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    Re: Good or Bad?

    There are storm clouds gathering over salary protection. There is at least one LA near me that implemented single status with salary protection who are now facing litigation.

    They have now been legally challenged about the protection. As I understand it, the test case centres round 2 people doing the same job, one who was in post prior to job evaluation, one who came later. they are both on the same scale, except one is getting salary protection, the other not. I don't know what the legal argument is, but I know it has scared a few nearby LAs who look like they are now attempting to back out of salary protection commitments negotiated with the unions.

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    Re: Good or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by beeswax
    "Is the jobholder required to develop any plans for actions, activities or events which are to happen some time in the future?"
    and,
    "Is the jobholder ever subject to unavoidable interruptions which make it difficult to complete the job duties?"
    The answer given to the first is NO, and the answer given to the second is NO, RARELY IF EVER.
    And on this are our job evaluations built.
    i've seen that form, infact its still on my desk. i think i filled it in. its MAYBE and YES ALL THE TIME (GODDAMN) for me.

    i was supposed to phone up somplace and arrange an appointment to talk to someone about it in the hols for some trial or something. I didnt really fancy that (im a computer person not a people person). so I didnt and no ones said anything about it since.....

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