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Educational IT Jobs Thread, ICT Manager advice. in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by jsnetman I don't agree with this for the following reasons. The MCSA and MCSA exams are passable ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsnetman View Post
    I don't agree with this for the following reasons. The MCSA and MCSA exams are passable by memory and some people who have passed that I have seen are not experienced at all. Don't get me wrong most of the people passing them do have knowledge and experience but not all. I was also the interviewer for the IT Techs post 2 years ago and one of the candidates had 2 degrees in computing and the other 1 degree. Neither of them could answer basic questions like how to diagnose a print queue problem correctly. The post went to the guy without any paper quals as he answered the questions correctly and showed more hands on IT experience generally.
    Quote Originally Posted by IanT View Post
    imo experience wins over grades
    Thanks for your input guys. I'm not sure the exams are passable by memory. I study for 2 hours each night to pass them, with lots of lab work involved. I agree that is experience is key. But in my organisation we have people who have been IT managers for years, and don't have a clue. (details in first post). So i think experience can be a bad indicator of skill, just as certs can. Unfortunately the use of braindump sites make it worse the certifications.

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    I've come across alot of IT Manager\Network Manager in my years in IT and I've always been shocked that they lack knowledge in certain areas of IT, imo if you are a IT Manager or Network Manager you should be aware of all technoglogy, worked in all areas of IT (Web Design, Networking, Support etc).

    I remember a few years back my old Network Manager asked me to come to his house and install a DVD-RW drive .................i'll say no more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanT View Post

    I remember a few years back my old Network Manager asked me to come to his house and install a DVD-RW drive .................i'll say no more.
    LOL, that is crazy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nc- View Post
    Thanks for your input guys. I'm not sure the exams are passable by memory. I study for 2 hours each night to pass them, with lots of lab work involved. I agree that is experience is key. But in my organisation we have people who have been IT managers for years, and don't have a clue. (details in first post). So i think experience can be a bad indicator of skill, just as certs can. Unfortunately the use of braindump sites make it worse the certifications.
    However, if you were to ask then how to solve a problem you still might find that they couldn't answer it. You wouldn't offer someone a job just because they have done a similar job for 10 years. You might offer them a job as they answered the questions because they have experience of 10 years.

    Edit: It also might be why you have IT managers who have been there for years, they aren't good enough to get other jobs or a promotion.
    Last edited by penfold; 9th March 2009 at 10:15 AM.

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    Firstly good luck with your interview.

    I came my current job from about 3 years technical help at a small school and at a bank. I have no certs and currently the only cert i would be after is something to do with Exchange. What I have found is that in schools it is a very unique operation structure, you will find that a lot of your job is spent with budgets, training and managing the staff and SLT. If you can keep the SLT happy and the staff feel that the network is being managed you will have few real issues.

    perception is everything and I don't mean you have to ever tell fibs, I have always been very honest with the management here and that has stood me well. I manage a fairly large school (1440 students, 220 staff, currently 9 servers and just under 1000 machines ) and a lot of my job is organisation and liaising with staff to work on improvements to what they use and how IT helps them work. Yes, knowing your stuff is very important but you might find that more of your time is management, something that an MCSE doesn't qualify you for.

    Please don't think I am rubbishing certs as they are something I have tried but didn't have enough time to see them through.

    experience, confidence and a smile will really do you well.

    Tony

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    Quote Originally Posted by penfold View Post
    However, if you were to ask then how to solve a problem you still might find that they couldn't answer it. You wouldn't offer someone a job just because they have done a similar job for 10 years. You might offer them a job as they answered the questions because they have experience of 10 years.
    Agreed, i guess this shows the importance of a test along side an interview. Equally you could get some one with less experience but a greater knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by penfold View Post
    Edit: It also might be why you have IT managers who have been there for years, they aren't good enough to get other jobs or a promotion.
    I'm sure this is the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Mc View Post
    Firstly good luck with your interview.

    I came my current job from about 3 years technical help at a small school and at a bank. I have no certs and currently the only cert i would be after is something to do with Exchange. What I have found is that in schools it is a very unique operation structure, you will find that a lot of your job is spent with budgets, training and managing the staff and SLT. If you can keep the SLT happy and the staff feel that the network is being managed you will have few real issues.

    perception is everything and I don't mean you have to ever tell fibs, I have always been very honest with the management here and that has stood me well. I manage a fairly large school (1440 students, 220 staff, currently 9 servers and just under 1000 machines ) and a lot of my job is organisation and liaising with staff to work on improvements to what they use and how IT helps them work. Yes, knowing your stuff is very important but you might find that more of your time is management, something that an MCSE doesn't qualify you for.

    Please don't think I am rubbishing certs as they are something I have tried but didn't have enough time to see them through.

    experience, confidence and a smile will really do you well.

    Tony
    Thanks Tony, some great points.

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    Yup, you don't need certs to be a good NM.

    What you do need is a BOFH attitude and a LART :-)

    On a serious note, I've been a NM here for 6 years and work in IT as sysadmin, helpdesk, web dev for close to 15 years now and the best people I've worked with are people that enjoy computers and use them for fun.

    I have no certs, but I am working though an Open Uni Computing BSc course with a plan to get a degree, I am currently doing a Cisco module.

    From experience of doing 6 modules of the degree course it will not help in the slightest once you get into a work environment.

    I am more impressed with people that have used Linux at home, in my experience the best people are the ones that are self taught.

    I say go for the NM job, once you've got the technical stuff covered then you get to work on your diplomacy and soft skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by budgester View Post
    Yup, you don't need certs to be a good NM.

    What you do need is a BOFH attitude and a LART :-)

    On a serious note, I've been a NM here for 6 years and work in IT as sysadmin, helpdesk, web dev for close to 15 years now and the best people I've worked with are people that enjoy computers and use them for fun.

    I have no certs, but I am working though an Open Uni Computing BSc course with a plan to get a degree, I am currently doing a Cisco module.

    From experience of doing 6 modules of the degree course it will not help in the slightest once you get into a work environment.

    I am more impressed with people that have used Linux at home, in my experience the best people are the ones that are self taught.

    I say go for the NM job, once you've got the technical stuff covered then you get to work on your diplomacy and soft skills.
    Thanks,

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    Personally I feel that it helps to have both. I have the knowledge and experience of working in a school and Windows 2K3/XP environment with CC3.

    The best way for me to get knowledge in a vanila environment was to do the certifications and labs as well.

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