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East Midlands Broadband Consortium (EMBC) Thread, Pricing from kcom in Regional Broadband Consortiums (RBC); A couple of things I can quickly comment on (but you can also contact emPSN / embc-pl about this, as ...
  1. #31

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    A couple of things I can quickly comment on (but you can also contact emPSN / embc-pl about this, as suggested on their website) is about the company address. Eversheds is the legal firm used by EMBC, and is the principle point of contact for the company, so uses the legal address rather than the business office address of embc-pl (who do not own EMBC ... it is owned by the LAs).

    I know that a lot of legal / contractual stuff has already been processed and there is more being done atm ... and even if stuff is sent to Companies House yesterday, it does take a few days for stuff to get updated on the database.

    EMBC Infrastructure Company (you will hear it referred to as ICo) and Service Company (SCo) will operate from the same legal business address. embc-pl will become SCO, hence why the company number is the same but the name might still not appear as such on the Companies House database yet.

    Please do contact embc-pl if you need more information.

  2. #32

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    With fairness to the information and balance Tony provides, I have been investigating commercial alternatives in light of a lack of firm information from KCOM and Capita.

    I've don't think I have much choice at the moment - our governors are not going to consider any offering where firm costs and SLA is unknown when commercial equivalents are available for known costs (and costs that could be quite reasonable at that) and to the same specification and SLA.

    One academy I know locally has already placed their order for a commercial connection - service to commence 1st August so they can change over in the summer rather than in the middle of term when the current contract ends - and I worry for what the primaries will end up with once they have been handed their costs at the last minute and they have been given no chance to compare and make an informed decision...
    Last edited by TheCrust; 5th March 2012 at 09:04 PM.

  3. #33

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    To be honest ... the phrase 'last minute' is not quite right here ... I know people are planning budgets and if you have a good price from an alternative vendor (with all associated costs) then if you wait another two weeks or another 2 months for a price from folk on the emPSN framework it makes little difference. If the main thing you are worried about is cost then you have a cost you can put into your budget ... and if the emPSN one comes in cheaper then that still fits within your budget. I used to have the exact same issue prior to being on EMBC at my last place ... not getting a price from NTL Business (as it was then) until last minute (and on occasion after the existing year had run out) but I always had another price to fall back on if needed.

    The contract finishes in October ... not next week. I know we are all under pressure to plan but there should be some perspective on this. The reason there is a long lead time with this is to give some slack ... and yes, I know that it has been eaten into already but there is still plenty of time.

  4. #34
    Gibson335's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    To be honest ... the phrase 'last minute' is not quite right here ... I know people are planning budgets and if you have a good price from an alternative vendor (with all associated costs) then if you wait another two weeks or another 2 months for a price from folk on the emPSN framework it makes little difference. If the main thing you are worried about is cost then you have a cost you can put into your budget ... and if the emPSN one comes in cheaper then that still fits within your budget. I used to have the exact same issue prior to being on EMBC at my last place ... not getting a price from NTL Business (as it was then) until last minute (and on occasion after the existing year had run out) but I always had another price to fall back on if needed.

    The contract finishes in October ... not next week. I know we are all under pressure to plan but there should be some perspective on this. The reason there is a long lead time with this is to give some slack ... and yes, I know that it has been eaten into already but there is still plenty of time.
    This is correct, of course. I, like many people, will have already looked at various non-emPSN options and will have their quote firmly in the back pocket to fall back on. So whilst I would agree that there's no immediate rush if you're happy to wait for an October changeover, there is slightly more urgency if you want to make those changes in July or August, especially with a 90 day lead-in. Putting options and recommendations to immediate line managers, to have that then discussed and agreed by SLT, and then finally ratified by Governors, all takes time as we all know. I think, also, in the back of people's minds the delays spread a little bit of doubt about how prepared the providers will be to make potentially a vast number of transitions at the same time.

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    Although this doesn't actually affect me, budgeting is done in advance. Leased lines can take 60-120 days to get in place depending on your location and any extra work that needs to be completed, so these lines would need to be ordered before the summer holidays to get them ready for September, as noone can order in September to be ready in October.

    Coming from a school that left the LA, along with 5 or 6 others all at once, I would suggest that unless the LA pull there finger out (ours wasn't able to) then the same will happen to EMBC as well, which may be a good or bad thing only time would tell. When we left the LA, it was only the primary schools I felt sorry for, we were given figures for what the costs were for everyone, as a secondary we questioned it priced alternatives etc. Primaries although given the same choice do nto have the same expertise available or the time and manpower to do the same, I have two primaries who have a shared fence with my school, they pay nearly 4k each to get 10MB from the local LA, plus filtering on top and I pay 8.5k to get 100MB. We didn't even have time to speak about jumping onto our connection (I could throw fibre through the window of the school its that close) and helping them out as the LA wanted them commited early.

    EMBC need to get the situation sorted to give schools the best deal, time to choose others if they aren't the best deal. If the problem is that EMBC suppliers are useless then get new suppliers... I feel like these contracts seem to shock LAs, almost like they came out of nowhere!

  6. #36
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    Update: Capita have updated/in process of updating their offerings on the embc, emPSN website. They finally have the "Day 1 bundle" pricing and more detail on costs.

  7. 3 Thanks to camel:

    Jobos (6th March 2012), kaphc (6th March 2012), sparkeh (6th March 2012)

  8. #37
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    Does anyone know what happened to the services pricing from RM? It seems the "Framework" now only exists of Kcom and Capita. Which is not what was pitched 12 months ago!

    Looking at the Capita setup costs taking a small no of services is going to be expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robk View Post
    Does anyone know what happened to the services pricing from RM? It seems the "Framework" now only exists of Kcom and Capita. Which is not what was pitched 12 months ago!

    Looking at the Capita setup costs taking a small no of services is going to be expensive.
    Well the KCOM package has its services from RM - KCOM are responsible for the connection. Regards Capita, it might be in their best interests to forego the setup costs for existing EMBC customers, but I can't see that happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyJF View Post
    Regards Capita, it might be in their best interests to forego the setup costs for existing EMBC customers, but I can't see that happening.
    Yes, if we're already using SUMS, Netsweeper etc. then I'm struggling to understand how we would need to pay a transition / setup fee to move to the OpenHive software if it's just a slightly updated version of the same thing we've been using already but just with a new name?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaphc View Post
    Yes, if we're already using SUMS, Netsweeper etc. then I'm struggling to understand how we would need to pay a transition / setup fee to move to the OpenHive software if it's just a slightly updated version of the same thing we've been using already but just with a new name?
    I would assume it does require a migration of sorts to a new system or new location within the system, but I still think it would help their cause to waive these charges.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by camel View Post
    Update: Capita have updated/in process of updating their offerings on the embc, emPSN website. They finally have the "Day 1 bundle" pricing and more detail on costs.
    Does anyone actually understand the Capita "Day 1 bundle" pricing? Are they fixed costs plus annual costs per user? Clear as mud from that table!

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaphc View Post
    Does anyone actually understand the Capita "Day 1 bundle" pricing? Are they fixed costs plus annual costs per user? Clear as mud from that table!
    Yes its not the clearest, as I understand it you pay a one off setup fee and the annual cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaphc View Post
    Does anyone actually understand the Capita "Day 1 bundle" pricing? Are they fixed costs plus annual costs per user? Clear as mud from that table!
    It's setup plus annual, but they haven't made it easy, because you get discounts the longer the contract, and they were initially suggesting discounts the more services you had, but not sure if that's still the deal. They have 'telesales' people to answer queries, and we all love telesales people don't we? I've asked for a straight quote for what I need for the length of time I want it, but it hasn't come back to me yet so will have to do some nudging.

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    As I understand, the Day 1 Bundle pricing has been set up to show schools what they would need to pay to basically maintain continuity of what they already have and use. Then there's the Day 1 Bundle+ to add things like the portal, videoconferencing etc. Interesting that these are ALREADY suggesting a mininum of 2 years contract, so further discounts would only be available for even longer contracts I guess. Given that kcom are looking at 4 year contract for connectivity as well, there are quite a lot of restrictions on the contracts.

    What I need to find out is what they class as a "user" especially when it comes to web filtering. Concurrent users? Number of statt? Number of staff + pupils? Number of machines? Does anyone know the answer to this already ..... save me a phone call?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaphc View Post
    What I need to find out is what they class as a "user" especially when it comes to web filtering. Concurrent users? Number of statt? Number of staff + pupils? Number of machines? Does anyone know the answer to this already ..... save me a phone call?
    I tried asking the same question, because initially their section on the site suggested a potential site fee rather than per user. I asked because both our staff and student numbers change from term to term, year to year, so I questioned what figure constituted 'per user' and got no direct response...so I too would like to know how what figure to use.

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