Norfolk - Straw Poll of what people are doing with hosted SIMS offer

[Heggy]

Norfolk have changed MIS provider from E1 to SIMS.
Wanted to get a feeling of how many people are looking to move over?

FYI, we're Serco CMIS but our Head is interested in migrating.

[JPS]

Not that I want to interfere, but just wondered if you were aware that Serco are launching their hosted MIS some time next year, and may be worth waiting for, given how much hassle a migration can be in regards to time and money. If you are visiting BETT that could be an ideal opportunity to check it out.

[Heggy]

Yep, Progresso i believe it's called. Looks interesting.

[NotSoFast]

I went along to a SIMS "Roadshow" this month and was astonished at the tone of the event. Basically Capita seem to assume we will all move and spent 3 hours explaining how painful and difficult the process would be. When asked if they would help us out with report writing to get the necessary data out, the answer was a flat "no". I'm sick of the way both Serco and Capita have us over a barrel. We will make a decision over the next couple of weeks but I expect we'll stay with Serco, and either:

a) reduce the number of modules we pay for (but hardly use, due to their poor quality) as contracts come up for renewal, filling in the gaps with custom-built stuff or off the shelf products like Keith Johnson's Timetabler;
b) move to Progresso if early adopters report that it lives up to its promise. My worry with this is that whilst the product looks good I have little confidence in the customer service...

I would love to go for ScholarPack but I just don't think it's ready for prime time. In fact, what I'd really like is a stripped down MIS that meets all the statutory requirements and no more, but is REALLY easy to plug into with standard SQL queries, a decent API etc so that developers could really compete for the assessment, reporting to parents, timetabling and other modules. I'd even pay for it. Oh well.

[tmcd35]

We've just (as in last may) moved from Phoenix Gold to SIMS. We decided we needed a solution quicker than the LEA could come to a decision over which MIS to use. Now that they have chosen I doubt very much we would move to the hosted version. We are not to keen on the idea of our data being held off-site and have questions over data protection, since the school is individually responsible under the Data Protection Act and not the LEA.

[Heggy]

Is that something particular to the way that Norfolk have gone about it, or are you not comfortable with MIS hosting in general?

[tmcd35]

I think I'm not comfortable with MIS hosting in general. I think there is a particular issue when it's the LEA are doing the hosting. They seem to be putting themselves into a position where they, the LEA, can access the schools data directly at any time without contacting the school at all. In data protection terms I think that is a real big no no. As I said above the schools are individually registered as data holders and individually liable uner the data protection act. On that basis I think we'd prefer to keep our data onsite and in our control.

Besides, if their was an internet failure we'd loose our MIS. Having had a number of power cuts recently I know how bad it is when the MIS is suddenly taken away from a school.

[garyjepp]

Our NM wasn't particularly taken by the new SIMS, or rather, what he was told about it at the meeting the other week.

I imagine we'll be sticking with Facility for now, and keeping an eye on Progresso.

[matt40k]

When I moved from SIMS DOS to SIMS .net we had a Capita guy come out of help move us over, we didn't give the staff much training and they did a brilliant job picking it up. My understanding of was in Norfolk you had multi parts, which didn't always interactive with each other, meaning duplication of work. The LA didn't "force" one solution like others that meant a bit of a miss match across the LA. Now they have gone SIMS. My question is, is Capita helping importing the data etc? Or are you having to re-enter everything?

@NotSoFast - You just described SIMS core. You can get the SIMS API if you want to work "direct". Plently of 3rd parties that offer every possible solution you could ever want.

I think I'm not comfortable with MIS hosting in general. I think there is a particular issue when it's the LEA are doing the hosting. They seem to be putting themselves into a position where they, the LEA, can access the schools data directly at any time without contacting the school at all. In data protection terms I think that is a real big no no. As I said above the schools are individually registered as data holders and individually liable uner the data protection act. On that basis I think we'd prefer to keep our data onsite and in our control.

LA's can't legally access your data, the only time they can is for maintainance or support. Any information they need is sent over B2B (which sends basic pupil data), what you manually send them. Proof of this is the fact you have to do the census etc. Personally I can't see the problem.

[plexer]

There are agreements in place over the lea accessing data directly. Plus there is integration via sif.

Ben

[f2mke]

Hi all - some interesting thoughts... My two-penneth for what it's worth

RE DPA and hosted MIS - or indeed any service that holds or processes personal data - where it physically 'sits' is irrelevant if within the European Economic Union. As a data owner, processor, or whatever, the individual can be held legally responsible for contravening the Act. You might be interested in
http://www.f2mke.co.uk/education/category/education/cloud/
where hosting in the cloud is discussed along with key checks...

RE Keeping it local as opposed to in the cloud... Powercuts Vs the Internet going down?? Surely it's a no-brainer?

For me, the most important thing is that all the systems can easily talk to one another. The MIS is pretty central to all the dataflows around a school and beyond.