MCSE training - Boot Camp Style

[Kyle]

I was looking into all sorts of possible MCSE training and i stumbled across the Boot Camps. I know they are very expensive but i wondered if any one had or knew of anyone who had done one of this style training camps. I know my cousin in America said they are very big in the states. A quick search on Google found a couple of companies in the UK that do them but they are very expensive and I imagine them to be very intense for 14 days of work.

There is even a company that fly you to the states (Florida) and you spent 14 days in a boot camp there.


Just wondered on your thoughts on this one.

[steve]

This depends really on your learning style.

They are very intensive programs with long days.

Personally I prefer them to self study, as i'm not self disciplined enough to pick up a book each night. Being away from home with nothing else to do seems to focus my mind.

You tend to get a lot of people with little or no computer knowledge on this type of course, they want the bit of paper that might be their way into the industry. Commonly known as paper MCSE's.

[Dos_Box]

You tend to get a lot of people with little or no computer knowledge on this type of course, they want the bit of paper that might be their way into the industry. Commonly known as paper MCSE's.

Hence the devaluation of the MCSE in recent years. I've interviewed many paper MCSEs and to be honest I don't rate the qualification anymore. Give me an experienced candidate anyday.

[mattx]

And what will the exams show in the end ? Not much - it will show you can cram knowledge and thats about it.
There is nothing like real world and work experience. I don't have any MCSE exams behind me but in a previous role I had vast more experience and knowledge than the people who did. I used to send them off to fix certain problems and they would say what it was BEFORE they started doing any PD. A few hours later they would come back stating 'it did not make sence' the book says it should be this etc etc. But hey, they had all the MCSE exams !! They were supposed to be brilliant !! Give it a few years and they will be. Still if IT managers want MCSE before they employ someone then so be it - just proves how little knowledge they have of the subject matter.
Exams prove nothing, getting your hands dirty, self taught knowledge and a general interest in IT is far better.

[alonebfg]

i when a friend went for a job the other person had mcse ect ect but when asked a simple question about dhcp dns and reserving addys for print servers he did not have a clue and kept stumbling. my friend got the job all he has is 5 years exerperince but not a single qual which is a shame because i think he would fly trough it. but he just says its a wasit of money and would rather spend it on his kids. I think he is right. That was a year ago he has now been promoted works in the us and is in charge of 4 company networks and says to me when he interviews h looks for what people know and not what they got on a bit of paper some of the best people have got no quals but good experince.

[Kyle]

Does anyone know where these kind of Boot Camps are run?

[webman]

Bossman used The Skills Gap, a 6-week residential in Hebden Bridge.

[ptsanders]

I think I can certainly offer some comments on this debate, as until I was made redundant in September last year, I was working as sysadmin/support for an IT Training company (advantage of that is that part of my redundancy deal is cost price IT training for life) I was involved in Unix and Oracle Training, but its a small world..full of resellers, and I saw the operations of Microsoft and Oracle bootcamps, from a number of viewpoints...
My feeling is, that Bootcamps can be useful as an helping hand to get a job, but any realistic employer wouldn't look just at the piece of paper..
I qualified myself by taking one exam at a time, and some of the time not doing the appropriate course, but buying "the book" spending 24/7 sitting in front my home network, working my way through and trying everything out...
plus of course, there is experience and there is experience, it may say "10 years working for x y and z on your CV, but how does anyone know what you were doing...for real.

peoples brains work differently as far as memory and learning is concerned, "the theory of multiple intelligences" . some folk will cram and cram and get the bit of paper, and remember every bit of what they learnt when it is needed, others will pass with flying colours, and then have forgotten the lot when they get home...

Getting to the end of what is becoming a long post, (and could go on for even longer) . I think Boot Camps are an expensive way of getting certificated.. If you really feel you are the type of person who can cram the lot in quick and pass, and then still cope in the real life workplace.... my advice would be do your own DIY bootcamp... hardware is so cheap now its untrue...and.. there are ways and means of getting the licensed software you need without breaking any laws.

take care

[mattx]

Some good points Ptsanders - I too was made redundant from a job of 13 years and to start with I was really worried I would not find a job as I had NO bits of paper to wave in the face of any future employer.
Most of the adverts I answered all required some form of MCSE but when the interviews came NOT one actually asked anything about them.
I think the way I answered letters helped as normally with a job spec they will list what they require and your duties etc. I used to highlight each point and then give examples of where I met those requirements. EG a project etc etc.
MCSE is nice to have but means NOTHING. Give me CBT, book or network in which I can dabble and I'm happy.

[rusty155]

I personally feel that boot camps can be a dangerous and sometimes dishonest way of gaining certs. A lot of them are guilty of running 'brain dump' outfits where you are simply taught how to pass the exam without learning the hows and whys of troubleshooting.

Certifications should only ever be a compliment to experience and never a substitute. There is just no way that anyone could ever learn everything needed to gain the MCSE in a two week course. It is something that should be worked towards alongside experience over a period of years not weeks.

I maybe being slightly controversial in my ranting but just my opinion.

[Oops_my_bad]

I went through www.qa-iq.com for my MCSE - think it's a lot cheaper for schools/colleges etc

yes in my opinion MCSE is not worth the paper it's written on, but employers seem to love them for some reason

[ctbjs]

I have to disagree that the MCSE is not worth the paper it is written on. Yes there are avenues that people can go down in order to gain the certification, but the individual that has worked their guts out to gain the qualification through studying for purposes of gaining knowledge so that they can do their day to day work.

i am currently training (also with qa-iq by the way) and find it very time consuming and difficult. I believe though that at the end of the training i will be knowledgeable and able to do my job fully and not be a guy with an MCSE that is good at remembering test answers.

Worth it? To me yes it is.

[bishopsgarthstockton]

Not doing boot camps, i do it off my own back doin my 3rd exam this friday the 70-291. I personally think the mcse is worth the paper it is written on.

what I learn, put in to practice every day, or as much as i can and when i can.

can some one please tell me whats worth doin, because it annoys the hell out of me when people say the mcse isnt worth while.

[rusty155]

I certainly think that MCSE is one of the most worthwhile certs that you can gain. It is 'required' for many positions nowadays and is probably the most popular and widely accepted among employers.

In my opinion however, it is only valuable when gained over time alongside experience and not via a two week brain dump course. How the cert was gained is a question that should be raised at interview anyway. It is possible to go on such a short course and gain the MCSE. However, a true 'Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer' will have years of experience to back up the qualification.

I will get there in the end, by building up the relevant modules over the next few years. I would personally expect someone with the MCSE to have at least 5 years industry experience for it to mean anything. There is a huge difference between the MCSE and a 'paper' MCSE, the latter only shows an ability to store vast amounts of information in the short term and learn the answers to multile choice questions.

Just my 2 pence!!

[ChrisH]

I had 6 years experience and and MCSA which I had gained nearly three years previous and one job I went for wouldnt shortlist me because I didnt have a degree anyway glad I stayed here because they have put me onto the same pay scale here now anyway.