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Cloud Services Thread, live@edu vs google in Technical; Indeed allthougj regarding a breakdown until a school becomes an academy norfolk keep all the grant money for internet services ...
  1. #16

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    Indeed allthougj regarding a breakdown until a school becomes an academy norfolk keep all the grant money for internet services and schools don't really have a choice.
    You are within your legal rights to request a break down, our la tried to do the same. Also if 15% of schools opt out the Grant can not be kept by the CC. They only have the power to keep the money if its going to benefit 85% of the schools or more. (or something like that)

  2. #17
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    Currently looking making the move away from Zimbra to either Live or Google here too.

    With Google offering the mobile device management as part of their package, I may be tempted to try that one. Not heard many horror stories compared to the pains of Zimbra that have been about.

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    With Google offering the mobile device management as part of their package
    Not had time to play with that but it does look good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by apearce View Post
    So i'm doing some research into the whole live@edu vs google apps to see what the benefits of both are. Are you a user of either of these? If so what do you like and dislike about them?

    Cheres
    Alex
    We have been looking at both of over a year now, but we still can't make a decision!

    I like that live@edu has a built a datacentre in Ireland, but I think that as both Microsoft and Google are on the safe harbour list and also have the patriot act applying to them I don’t know if this makes much difference?

    I like that we already have pupils using their own SkyDrive’s in their own Hotmail accounts and that we also have pupils that are using google docs.

    It would be good if live@edu could work with an easier ldap sync tool other than ILM, Google’s ldap tool is free...

    I found it more difficult to find the documentation for Google Apps for shared address spaces, i was able to find it, but live@edu has a nice deployment guide which had all the different types of deployment in one place.

    Google docs seem to already work on iPads, the live@edu outlook web access works and there is also a SkyDrive app, but the web apps for Word, Excel, and PowerPoint don’t seem to be available at the moment so no creation or editing, you can however view them in the SkyDrive app.

    Something I can't seem to find out with live@edu is what age the pupil has to be before they can have an account. Google's T&C says 13; any younger has to have parental consent, would this be the same for live@edu?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by drewp; 23rd January 2012 at 02:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drewp View Post

    Something I can't seem to find out with live@edu is what age the pupil has to be before they can have an account. Google's T&C says 13; any younger has to have parental consent, would this be the same for live@edu?

    Thanks!

    MS have case studies and blurb about use in K12 schools, which I think means from age 5 upwards.

  6. #21
    zag
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    We moved to live@edu from an exchange server 12 months ago.

    Its the single best thing I have done in all my time as a network manager. Couldn't be happier.

    I think I would have chosen google apps though if I could go back. Surprisingly live@edu doesn't integrate with active directory and Google Apps does. Incredible I know but thats the way it is!! Its not a huge problem creating accounts seperatlely though, much less than I thought it would be.

    Some more comments:

    - Hotmail and Live@edu conflict because you have to log in and out of each account. This annoys most of our teachers who use hotmail.
    - Skydrive is a bit rubbish to be honest, you cant even copy multiple folders to it. Its no where near as good as dropbox anyway.
    - In terms of email its been a revelation, people love the large limits, easy domain name, excellent webmail interface and fast outlook desktop client. So much better than an internal server in my opinion. I've not touched powershell in a year, it just works which is the way an email system should be.
    - Office 365 apps like sharepoint and word are chargeable and is for some reason not covered in your licensing agreement. Its incredibly expensive for schools and not worth it. Email is however free.
    - Live@edu uses TLS authentication which isn't supported by many web apps like photocopiers, climate devices or even internal sharepoint. This is a real pain sometimes.

    It will be very interesting to see how Windows 8 develops, if they have login by Live ID functionality then I can see us removing local student logins at some point. This would be huge for things like tablets in the future. But maybe I'm dreaming

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    - Hotmail and Live@edu conflict because you have to log in and out of each account. This annoys most of our teachers who use hotmail.
    - Office 365 apps like sharepoint and word are chargeable and is for some reason not covered in your licensing agreement. Its incredibly expensive for schools and not worth it. Email is however free.
    On these 2 points if it helps;

    1) You can link hotmail and live@edu together, so solving that problem
    2) Is that a new change in pricing - Office Web apps (Word, Excel, etc) are free for me, I just thought it was possibly things like Sharepoint that were going to be chargeable fo rstaff onlty (free for student use?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    Surprisingly live@edu doesn't integrate with active directory
    In what way? Live@Edu has OLSync albeit with the ILM dependency or is it FIM now? I think the requirement for the latter is annoying and have been tempted to write a Lite AD-> Live@edu syncing app without the passwords, but as you say it's not a huge problem.

    Hotmail clash: Am I the only person on the planet who doesn't go to work at tax-payers expense in order to spend the day reading some external personal e-mail account, faffing with facebook, miscellaneous forums etc?

    TLS auth: I think that's a Good Thing[tm]. Here's SMTP Proxy, a little open source app on Codeplex which should solve your problems with any last-century SMTP clients. Don't need and haven't used it though... if you do, then let us know the outcome please.

  9. #24
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    I found this piece of software that can sync active directory groups to live@edu, could be an alternative to ILM.

    Sysint - easySync

  10. #25
    zag
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    In what way? Live@Edu has OLSync albeit with the ILM dependency or is it FIM now? I think the requirement for the latter is annoying and have been tempted to write a Lite AD-> Live@edu syncing app without the passwords, but as you say it's not a huge problem.
    Well google apps for education has a simple Active directory sync. Microsofts way of doing this (Using ILM or FIM) is a joke really and in no way suited to primary, secondary or small organizations.

    The hotmail clash is a problem simply because people want to keep their private and school email addresses separate. I really don't get why Microsoft cant add a 2nd profile to the Live login page.

    According to this page Office web apps costs 2$ a month for students and 14$ a month for staff. That would be a cost $4,000 a year extra for our school. Why that isnt included in our agreement I don't know. Its actually doubling the cost of our licensing so puts it out of reach.

  11. #26
    zag
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewp View Post
    I found this piece of software that can sync active directory groups to live@edu, could be an alternative to ILM.

    Sysint - easySync
    Very interesting!!!! Wish that was available when we launched...

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    Very interesting!!!! Wish that was available when we launched...
    I know Live@edu is giving a lot for free but, if something like that was part of the live@edu package it would be great!

    It’s about 500 which is not expensive if it does what it says it does... is anyone using it, or can anyone willing to give it a try

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    Quote Originally Posted by drewp View Post
    I know Live@edu is giving a lot for free but, if something like that was part of the live@edu package it would be great!

    It’s about 500 which is not expensive if it does what it says it does... is anyone using it, or can anyone willing to give it a try
    It is kind of expensive given that the google one is free, so are their office apps and all the other features that google have that live@edu doesn't.
    Just keeping the thread back on topic.

  14. #29

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    I know its down to personal preference but I just don't get why a school would be going down the MS road when you have a set of tools (google) that imho are years ahead, does more and is completely free. Please don't say its because word on-line looks the same as the desktop version (as someone in another forum had) or something like that as that's a pants reason.

  15. #30
    zag
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    It is kind of expensive given that the google one is free, so are their office apps and all the other features that google have that live@edu doesn't.
    Just keeping the thread back on topic.
    Yeh totally agree. We went with Live@edu because we wanted to go the Microsoft route with easy AD integration and a common interface.

    It turned out that the AD integration was actually much better with google apps.

    If I had the choice again I would go with Google Apps due to it being free and integrating better.

    Thats not to say we are not happy with Live@edu. It just seems like a product that was designed for bigger universities, not schools.

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