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    Cloud, SaaS and SoSaas - Same old Software, as a Service

    Hi Matt40,

    You post:

    Originally Posted by GREED There is also the issue of how do you control how much x third party thrashes the server or services if tapping directly into the database, regardless of they are core tables or not. What if x third party wants to poll every 10 seconds for the entire database which in a new cloud installation could be for an entire LA so 100000 kids full records...
    When your working in the cloud, your paying for every single resource, read are cheap as it'll all be in memory (with any luck), writes are expensive. So maybe I should have said cost of space + change frequency. You'd make sure you have limits on everything, even your own services - things like querying the school name shouldn't happen every 10 secs, checking for messages you would, but you wouldn't use sql tables, you'd use queues. Anyway I digress into the future. Be interested in your findings we all know about the sluhore that is SIMS but be interested to hear how the other MIS provider fair when it comes to getting at the data.

    Originally Posted by PhilNeal
    (remember I am not talking SIMS - we are not in the cloud)


    I might get this framed - if only I could find that post where you were trying to tell us it was.

    Originally Posted by Roberto
    If I connect directly to the database behind any product and run DROP DATABASE then that's not the vendor's fault, especially if I was warned about it (provided, of course, that all the info in the DB was mine)... That doesn't change just because something is hosted in the cloud, though I don't doubt some people who didn't get the "cloud's not magic" memo would disagree :-(

    If it's managed and in the cloud and you got access to the raw tables, you certainly wouldn't have access to drop the database. Still I know what you mean, if it's been designed correctly it'll be all container-ed, however I suspect some companies won't have. It's one of the reasons Office365\Azure was forked from Office\SQL server. "



    To all,

    It is worth starting a new thread with this.

    What may help the discussion is confusion that has been caused some suppliers simply relocating their offering into central datacentre and calling it cloud or SaaS.

    The following extracts from some critics may help:

    SoSaaS:Same old Software, as a Service
    I've always beenwary of the term software-as-a-service, not onlybecause SaaS is such an ugly acronym, but also because it conveys completelythe wrong message. It gives the impression that all you need to do is take anyold software package, run it up on a server in a data center, do a bit offinancial engineering so customers can pay on a monthly plan, and hey presto!you've got an on-demand application. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    I think it's time to coina new acronym that nails that model much more accurately: Sameold Software, as a Service. This makes it easy to identify on-demandapplications that are not worthy of the name— they're just SoSaaS.
    Conventional applicationsoftware simply isn't built for the on-demand model. It doesn'thave the same economies of scale, agility and extensibility, and itsimplementation-centric architecture makes it incapable of delivering equivalentbusiness value — as I'll be demonstrating in the coming months in this blog.Any vendor that takes their existing software and simply delivers it as anonline service just doesn't get it— and their on-demand offering willinevitably be much slower, less flexible and more expensive than rivals thathave rearchitected their applications afresh for the on-demand model.
    Knowing this makes it veryeasy to detect whether a vendor's on-demand offering has any validity.Simply listen to what their executives say. Here's Bruce Cleveland, Siebel'snew senior vice president of products, who also oversees Siebel's OnDemandhosted CRM offerings, talking a few days ago about"supplying our products in an on-demand form factor" (huh?):
    "... the fact of the matter is that this isall software and it's only the deployment options and financial vehicles thatare used to deliver them that have changed."
    Oh dear. Sounds like asevere case of SoSaaS to me.

    By Phil Wainewright
    Phil Wainewright has been a thought leader in cloud computing as ablogger, analyst and consultant since 1998. As well as documenting thetransformation of 21st century enterprises by digital technology, he has apart-time voluntary role as vice-president of industry advocacy group EuroCloud.

    http://www.zdnet.com/blog/saas/sosaas-same-old-software-as-a-service/8


  2. Thanks to Bromcom-PR from:

    mikecampbell (24th February 2014)

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    Perhaps I could ask Bromcom how Third Parties can access data held in Bromcom's cloud?
    Last edited by PhilNeal; 17th February 2014 at 10:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilNeal View Post
    Perhaps I could ask Bromcom how Third Parties can access data held in Bromcom's cloud?
    Currently, all our partners can AccessData via Secured Web Service APIs written for Third Party companies; they are integrating with Bromcom Cloud MIS and retrieving data for their systems.
    Last edited by Bromcom-PR; 17th February 2014 at 12:30 PM. Reason: Formatting

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    Great so if a school wanted to move to another system how would they go about it?

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    Phil,

    I think the reference in the thread where Cloud, Saas and SoSaaS started, was to 'interoperability' rather than 'data migration'. Hence reply above and APIs refer to support for interoperability.

    As to Bromcom data migration, the process provides access an equivalent 'local install' version of SQL DB from Bromcom Cloud for the customer.

    This is far more than what Bromcom finds with other MIS suppliers provision for data migration.
    Last edited by Bromcom-PR; 17th February 2014 at 10:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromcom-PR View Post
    AccessData via Secured Web Service APIs written for Third Party
    How easy is this get hold of? I mean can a freelance developer get access or would you need to throw some money at it first or get a sponsor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromcom-PR View Post
    the process provides access an equivalent 'local install' version of SQL DB from Bromcom Cloud for the customer.
    Is this more of a data dump then a possible dev system?

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    How easy is this get hold of? I mean can a freelance developer get access or would you need to throw some money at it first or get a sponsor?
    You need to get a sponsor and be prepared to sign NDA.

    YOU NEED TO THROW NO MONEY!

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    Is this more of a data dump then a possible dev system?
    No development system.

    Each vendor will have built their own ways of dealing with the challenge.

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    So as a school who decides to leave (heaven help them), you'd give them a local copy of the SQL data that they can then extract from to migrate away.
    No charge? No on-going fees?

    That would be good, considering some of the horror stories i've heard lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikpaw View Post
    No charge? No on-going fees?
    Yes, no charge!

    Yes, no on-going fees!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromcom-PR View Post
    You need to get a sponsor and be prepared to sign NDA.
    Why? If I understand this discussion correctly, you have a cloud-based MIS of some kind where schools can put all their data, and third-party developers can write applications that get that data via a set of APIs to do whatever they require. You can't just let peple sign up for test accounts, with access to example data, maybe put a limit on the number of GET/POST requests per day or whatever?

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    If someone did that, we would see a lot more developers getting involved. The work involved just to get access puts a lot of people off, which can sometimes be a good thing, but not always. The argument about security is pretty outdated nowadays - look at paypal for example, you can write interfaces that handles money without a NDA!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dhicks View Post
    Why? If I understand this discussion correctly, you have a cloud-based MIS of some kind where schools can put all their data, and third-party developers can write applications that get that data via a set of APIs to do whatever they require. You can't just let peple sign up for test accounts, with access to example data, maybe put a limit on the number of GET/POST requests per day or whatever?
    Why ask for Sponsor? To vet 3rd parties; provides the Company reference for bono fide need and comfort about the 3rd parties.
    Why ask for NDA? To protect our Company's IP and account for the 3rds parties that have knowledge of Bromcom APIs; avoid use APIs by 3rd parties that are not vetted.

    Surely what we are asking is very reasonable and responsibly. We are asking for no money or no commitment.

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    How would it work for say someone like GroupCall, if they have a problem, do they have to log it via a school or once they are validated they get direct support? Would this apply to everyone?

    Protect your IP? Seriously? I get it for Capita SIMS, they basically give you access to their entire code base! I mean I could literally cut out any bit of code. Surely a web API would give you nothing but an API, that's the point! Look at DigitalOcean API - https://developers.digitalocean.com/ - knowing that wouldn't allow me create an alternative, taking that information would allow me to create virtual servers on any platform other then digitalocean. All the real logic is squirrelled away behind the scenes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromcom-PR View Post
    Why ask for Sponsor? To vet 3rd parties; provides the Company reference for bono fide need and comfort about the 3rd parties. Why ask for NDA? To protect our Company's IP and account for the 3rds parties that have knowledge of Bromcom APIs; avoid use APIs by 3rd parties that are not vetted.
    If I was creating an API for a cloud-based MIS, I'd require developers to sign up for an account but that would be it. All that would get you is access to a set of test data, and there would be bandwidth limits to stop your servers getting hammered. Access to a school's actual data would require a cryptographic certificate from that school, and there'd be bandwidth limits again, with graded paid-for options for a school to increase bandwidth.

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