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Cloud Services Thread, Cloud, SaaS and SoSaas - Same old Software, as a Service in Technical; Wouldn't charge for bandwidth, seriously not worth it. I wouldn't want to discourage people using the system. It's why you ...
  1. #16

    matt40k's Avatar
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    Wouldn't charge for bandwidth, seriously not worth it. I wouldn't want to discourage people using the system. It's why you wouldn't charge a per-user fee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    How would it work for say someone like GroupCall, if they have a problem, do they have to log it via a school or once they are validated they get direct support? Would this apply to everyone?

    Protect your IP? Seriously?
    We support either way depending on the relationship built with the 3rd party.

    IP: Of course, APIs aren't the worry. Yes, let's not read too much into APIs. However once the relationship with 3rd starts, it sometimes lead to other technical information that we would not want to share with 3rd parties/schools without NDA. Hence we want to get the process right from the outset. NDA does allow us to track the 3rds parties and schools that have knowledge of Bromcom APIs and avoid use APIs by 3rd parties that are not vetted.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    Wouldn't charge for bandwidth, seriously not worth it. I wouldn't want to discourage people using the system. It's why you wouldn't charge a per-user fee.
    But now you're just blowing a hole in the whole (!) SAAS model. You have to charge per unit x. Bandwidth, storage, CPU, you name it. Otherwise how will you know it's a scalable cloudy environment?

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    I said I wouldn't charge for users or bandwidth. I didn't say I wouldn't charge based on storage!

    EDIT: I probably wouldn't charge per storage either, after all you want them to use the system. I'd stick with the current model of school type, school size and bolt-ons. Look at CentraStage, they charge per-device they don't charge per deployment per device.
    Last edited by matt40k; 18th February 2014 at 01:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    I said I wouldn't charge for users or bandwidth. I didn't say I wouldn't charge based on storage!

    EDIT: I probably wouldn't charge per storage either, after all you want them to use the system. I'd stick with the current model of school type, school size and bolt-ons. Look at CentraStage, they charge per-device they don't charge per deployment per device.
    I put it to you Sir, that you are So not SAAS and nor are they!

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    Azure certainly bills for usage of storage, processor , power, servers and bandwidth required.

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    matt40k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikpaw View Post
    I put it to you Sir, that you are So not SAAS and nor are they!
    How dare you! Calling the idea in my head a SoSaaS!! The very idea! My MIS is completely in the cloud!!

    If it cloud applications was truly about storage, processor , power, servers and bandwidth I would run SIMS on "Azure". Cloud is about things like scale, self-service and automation. My billing page is full of sliders and can dynamically scale up or down your MIS - I then have business logic to work out the baseline resources required the "builds" resources required. The company motto is optimization is king, failure to do so results in more resources being used and you getting leg cut off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    How dare you! Calling the idea in my head a SoSaaS!! The very idea! My MIS is completely in the cloud!!

    If it cloud applications was truly about storage, processor , power, servers and bandwidth I would run SIMS on "Azure". Cloud is about things like scale, self-service and automation.
    Scaling up:
    We totally agree with matt40k on scalability. We tested and checked that any client-server 'thick application' in cloud will require up to 50 fold more RAM against an equivalent web application (written with SaaS in mind!). Hence scaling is not viable or prohibitively expensive! With MIS Bromcom's deployment philosophy has been that all teachers and staff are on line at least some part of the day and at least once all together simultaneously - including in primary schools. In an LA this adds up to a good few thousands of simultaneous user session!

    Otherwise Microsoft would have had all their Office applications in Azure rather launching Office365! That would have been SoSaaS - wouldn't it?

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    I can't help it, I can't lurk any more on this thread... It has given me much amusement however!

    I had a long debate with @penfold_99 about the term SoSaaS, we couldn't agree. Much like my bugbear about the term cloud and the misuse of it, Software as a Service seems to be bounded about without a full understanding of the meaning too.

    It might be nice to have a definitive definition, because my understanding is that SaaS is software you use you do not manage. So Microsoft when they brought out 365 apps, Word became a Software as a Service you use then switch off. You don't install, update, troubleshoot and fix, that is handled elsewhere. Just as you would with a SaaS MIS. Ok you then have the grey area with the storage, but you could argue this is a service you are paying for too (like OneDrive).
    Given that, does SoSaaS actually exist (I personally don't like the term, but as @vikpaw will testify that is probably because I didn't think of it!). I would argue not, because any software could be used as SaaS under that definition.

    To Cloud, my interpretation has always been that Cloudy applications are ones that are hosted on several disparate and distributed servers, like Google servers and services are. Ones simply presented via a web browser and hosted on a server not on site does not make it cloud(y).

    Interested in the discussions on APIs and charges, so to @Bromcom-PR I would ask do you charge for your API, in any form (write back included), and do you charge for facilities to test the integration against, for example a test environment. Do you charge a licence fee for non-school 'customers'. It's no secret Capita do make a charge both for partnership and for writeback (This is not a dig at all @PhilNeal it is a public fact these days, but because SIMS is being compared against I wanted to use that as a basis for comparison), so I am wondering your thoughts and position on this? It is just we were talking about integration and that and then suddenly got talking on MIS migration.

    I thought it might be worth mentioning here as is on topic, however it will be a part of the MIS Question Tim session!
    Last edited by GREED; 19th February 2014 at 10:32 AM.

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    I thought this topic was forked from the data migration\integration topic to discuss cloudy things? Do I have to get a mod to slap you back over to your own topic? lol

    Suppose the the problem with a putting a definitive definition on the term is cloud is difficult by it's very definition. I suppose its like we're trying to put a physical cloud into a box because that's what we are use to doing, we're use to products and services rather than pure services on a utility bases. I think we can all agree we have two types of cloud however, grey and white. Grey would be like putting SIMS .net in it's current form into the sky (centrally hosted) - its going to rain and very few people like the rain and even fewer like being in the rain. SIMS 8 as it's being quoted is going to be build from the ground up for the cloud, so they're white clouds and hopefully the sun will shine - maybe they'll host it Australia for something

    Perhaps you could do a weather forecast when it comes to your report @GREED when you're talking about their cloud type

  11. Thanks to matt40k from:

    GREED (19th February 2014)

  12. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    I thought this topic was forked from the data migration\integration topic to discuss cloudy things? Do I have to get a mod to slap you back over to your own topic? lol
    No, check the first few replies which mention APIs still...

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    Perhaps you could do a weather forecast when it comes to your report @GREED when you're talking about their cloud type
    Good plan!

  14. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by GREED View Post
    No, check the first few replies which mention APIs still...
    Ahh, you're referring to the naughty @PhilNeal who's using his salesman skills to distract us whilst the Capita developers finish of SIMS 8 so we don't badge Capita with rainy clouds. Didn't your mother warning you about following other people?

  15. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromcom-PR View Post
    We totally agree with matt40k on scalability.
    What infrastructure are you using for Bromcom's cloud backend - are you using someone else's servers (Amazon, RackSpace, Microsoft Azure) with your software on top, or are you hosting your own hardware? If its your own hardware, are you running a cloud system of some kind, i.e. OpenStack or similar, or have you written all you software from scratch?

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    They shouldn't really tell you for security, but an educated guess...

    They list two cloud providers on their site:
    Bromcom Computers Plc - Partners

    Colocation Cloud Hosting & UK Datacentre Provider | Pulsant
    and
    Managed Hosting | Dedicated Servers & Cloud Hosting | UKFast

    So I would guess they have a private cloud using something like vmware.

  17. 2 Thanks to matt40k:

    Bromcom-PR (19th February 2014), dhicks (19th February 2014)

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