+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 62
Cloud Services Thread, Google admits data mining student emails in its free education apps in Technical; Just to confirm. MS store their O365 data for education in the EU. I had it confirmed straight from the ...
  1. #16

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,832
    Thank Post
    62
    Thanked 161 Times in 133 Posts
    Rep Power
    64
    Just to confirm. MS store their O365 data for education in the EU. I had it confirmed straight from the horses mouth so to speak.
    EU demands answers over Microsoft's Patriot Act admission | ZDNet

  2. Thanks to edutech4schools from:

    AButters (17th March 2014)

  3. #17

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    17,095
    Thank Post
    511
    Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,785 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    803
    Indeed. There is an issue with 'US Homed' companies and EU data protection principles. Basically, if a company is in the USA but has EU subsidiaries or facilities, the US Patriot Act (and probably other laws too) render EU law a moot point - as failing to comply with the Patriot Act is a fairly huge thing and would effectively be the end of that company if the US govt so wished. So, faced with the potential of the EU shouting loudly and fining them a few Euros, or a life sentence for anyone involved, the company is going to go with handing over data.

  4. Thanks to localzuk from:

    AButters (17th March 2014)

  5. #18

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Weston-super-Mare
    Posts
    36
    Thank Post
    2
    Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    11
    That's why I love this forum, someone, somewhere has a bit of info you didn't have before you read the forum post!

    Ok so the Patriot Act trumps the Data Protection Act, but in practice, how likely is it to be implemented in such a way that your data will be requested? Isn't it more likely that you will lose data via one of the highly trained data processors that handle this data on a day to day.
    Last edited by harriuk; 16th February 2014 at 06:24 PM.

  6. #19
    jamesbmarshall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Reading, UK
    Posts
    454
    Thank Post
    24
    Thanked 204 Times in 142 Posts
    Rep Power
    80
    If anyone wants information about Microsoft's standpoint on this, check: Office 365 Trust Center

    Also, Your Privacy is Our Priority - UK Education Cloud Blog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

  7. 2 Thanks to jamesbmarshall:

    AButters (17th March 2014), funkyfin2000 (17th February 2014)

  8. #20
    fiza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,730
    Thank Post
    309
    Thanked 227 Times in 201 Posts
    Rep Power
    86
    So what, in reality, does this mean for schools who have rolled out Google apps for edu or are about to? if we have to let students know about this can they then opt out? where would that leave schools? We are at a cross roads - 365 or google - I was leaning towards google but now.......

  9. #21

    ZeroHour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    5,574
    Thank Post
    869
    Thanked 1,293 Times in 786 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    436
    Quote Originally Posted by fiza View Post
    So what, in reality, does this mean for schools who have rolled out Google apps for edu or are about to? if we have to let students know about this can they then opt out? where would that leave schools? We are at a cross roads - 365 or google - I was leaning towards google but now.......
    Do you have a link to any terms you would have with Google Apps? just curious if it requires you to inform your pupils or not. I dont think there is an opt out other then not having a google apps account.

  10. #22
    fiza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,730
    Thank Post
    309
    Thanked 227 Times in 201 Posts
    Rep Power
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroHour View Post
    Do you have a link to any terms you would have with Google Apps? just curious if it requires you to inform your pupils or not. I dont think there is an opt out other then not having a google apps account.
    I didn't mean an opt-out option within Google I meant if the students didn't agree then they would opt-out of having a google apps account then where would that leave the school? You couldn't then have the whole school on google apps.

  11. #23

    ZeroHour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    5,574
    Thank Post
    869
    Thanked 1,293 Times in 786 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    436
    Quote Originally Posted by fiza View Post
    I didn't mean an opt-out option within Google I meant if the students didn't agree then they would opt-out of having a google apps account then where would that leave the school? You couldn't then have the whole school on google apps.
    The reason I wondered is the article is a USA based one, the EU Google Apps may be different or have different terms, but yeah I suspect you may be correct there. The thing that gets me is the stealth change from not mining to mining without anyone aware (if it applies in EU)

  12. #24


    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,487
    Thank Post
    198
    Thanked 629 Times in 481 Posts
    Rep Power
    227
    I've tried to make the point before that the wording of the Domain Setting implied that while ads would not be served, the processing was going on. I was told I was wrong by various people including Google employees.

    The problem for schools is that to comply with the Data Protection Act, data must be processed fairly, it must be transparent what data you are processing and why, and a subject may request access to their data and schools are obliged to supply data they hold.

    If your school uses Google Apps, Goggle are processing data under your schools registration. They are acting as a supplier of services to your school. How do you tell your data subjects what processing you are doing when you don't know? How can you say data is being processed fairly, when you have no control over the processing (and when the supplier has lied to you that it is actually doing any processing)? How can you comply with a subject access request which should now include metadata google collects, when you have no access to that data?

    It looks to me that the use of Google Apps for Education in the UK is fundamentally incompatible with a Schools obligations under the DPA. I'm surprised there isn't more discussion of this.

  13. #25
    AButters's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    383
    Thank Post
    103
    Thanked 78 Times in 63 Posts
    Rep Power
    36
    This confirms my suspicion that when using cloud services you are effectively handing your data over to a third party with no actual control over what your data is actually used for now, or in the future.

    Worrying. As far as I can see, private clouds are the only answer, so that you can deliver cloud services to pupils and teachers, whilst still remaining 100% in control of the data and the hardware which sits safely in your server room. Not cheap though!!

  14. #26

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Kensington, London
    Posts
    362
    Thank Post
    59
    Thanked 35 Times in 31 Posts
    Rep Power
    17
    If you're an institution that can access JANET resources then these 2 links will be of use (they also have Dropbox/Amazon and a few others)

    https://www.ja.net/products-services...apps-education

    https://www.ja.net/products-services...oft-office-365 (I have this one)

  15. #27


    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    51.405546, -0.510212
    Posts
    8,117
    Thank Post
    203
    Thanked 2,385 Times in 1,765 Posts
    Rep Power
    703
    Google sued for data-mining students' e-mail Naked Security

    Google is in hot water for scanning millions of students' email messages and allegedly building "surreptitious" profiles to target advertising at them.

    According to Education Week, a "potentially explosive" lawsuit is wending its way through US federal court, now being heard in the US District Court for the Northern District of California.

    In court filings, plaintiffs charge that Google data-mines Gmail users - a group that includes students who use the company's Apps for Education tool suite.
    Its automated processes can't actually be turned off, Google said, even for users who choose not to receive ads.

  16. Thanks to Arthur from:

    ZeroHour (18th March 2014)

  17. #28
    the_dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    78
    Thank Post
    0
    Thanked 15 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    5
    maybe you Google Apps users will get some massive settlement from Google...Chromebooks for everyone...!

  18. #29

    ZeroHour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    5,574
    Thank Post
    869
    Thanked 1,293 Times in 786 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    436
    Quote Originally Posted by the_dude View Post
    maybe you Google Apps users will get some massive settlement from Google...Chromebooks for everyone...!
    LOL, even more slurping then
    If anyone knows a good staffer of google (PM me please) I am keen to request a statement for UK people regarding the automated systems.
    Last edited by ZeroHour; 18th March 2014 at 09:12 PM.

  19. #30


    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,487
    Thank Post
    198
    Thanked 629 Times in 481 Posts
    Rep Power
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by the_dude View Post
    maybe you Google Apps users will get some massive settlement from Google...Chromebooks for everyone...!
    I'd probably just settle for them paying taxes to help fund the education of the students who's data they are ruthlessly bent on exploiting for the gain of their shareholders.

    Question for the anthropologists : can you always spot colonisation by the lack of respect for local customs (see what I did there) and the handing out of shiny baubles?

  20. Thanks to pcstru from:

    AButters (19th March 2014)

SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10th July 2013, 12:52 PM
  2. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 14th August 2011, 07:25 PM
  3. Block student to student email in Exchange 2k3
    By dgsmith in forum How do you do....it?
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 24th March 2010, 03:44 PM
  4. Using google mail for school email, is it a good idea?
    By joseph in forum Wireless Networks
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 27th August 2009, 10:23 PM
  5. Student Email
    By andy in forum School ICT Policies
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 4th July 2005, 09:14 AM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •