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BSF Thread, BSF Managed Services Costings Outragously Expensive in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; So you are saying that schools are being 'asked' to run down EDUCATIONAL services to make BSF look better? I ...
  1. #16

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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    So you are saying that schools are being 'asked' to run down EDUCATIONAL services to make BSF look better?

    I can accept that principle when it comes to building maintenance. However, if already in place, ICT is critical to student atainment.

    Anyone who finds themselves in this situation needs to push hard to, at the very least, maintain and refresh existing kit and keep their IT team on the top of their game. In this business if you are not moving forward, you're going backwards.

  2. #17
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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    Who will maintain the school website under BSF?

  3. #18

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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd
    How long is the initial contract for? Projectors don't last for ever, but if they integrated legacy kit that was in good shape you could stretch your refresh towards the end of the funding period making the money go further.
    AFIK the inital contract is 5yr minimum and schools are requested by LA not to buy new kit - presumably their budgets are progressively cut in run up to BSF
    My understanding of the BSF ICT funding is as follows:

    In the year(s) leading up to BSF, schools will find their budgets 'pruned', in particular losing a chunk of devolved capital. Many schools have used devolved capital to invest in ICT equipment and infrastructure in the past. They won't be able to do this, so ICT funds will dry up.

    Once the initial BSF ICT purchases have been made and your new systems are up & running there will be no annual, additional ring-fenced ICT funding provided to schools.

    'Entry' level BSF payments start at around £90 per student per year for a minimum of 5 years, for which you get the managed service. If you want equipment to be refreshed during the contract, you elect to pay more. This builds up a 'fund' to be used to pay for replacement kit. Otherwise you have to find the money yourself & pay the service provider for new kit out of a catalogue of equipment they have decided to supply. If you want something not in their catalogue, it may be provided with additional support costs as it is non-standard.

    Repair costs for equipment accidentally or deliberately damaged by students, staff etc may or may not be included as part of the contract, depending upon how smart the LA staff are at building/negotiating the initial contracts. If they choose to keep the initial costs to schools down, these will be excluded from the contract.
    At the end of the day, someone has to pay. You either fund it yourself or pay someone else to fund it; if you pay someone else there will be a 'management' cost added.

    It is difficult to see where things will end up long term, my personal view is that many schools will end up being worse off, either financially, and/or they will have less equipment.

  4. #19
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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    Bottom line is.. The first year is paid for by the BSF and the other 4 years the school has to find it's own funding..

    So if you get a school of 1200 Students at £100 per child thats £120 000.00 per year.. just for the basic Managed Services..

    The school then has to find £480 000.00 for the next 4 years out of it's own pocket.

    This is the basic.. this is without PC's being new purchased after 3 years and no legacy equiptment being supported, nor any additional support like damage..

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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    @Grommit

    It is meant to be per child per year ... if it is not then someone is not giving you the correct figures or is moving the money elsewhere. As Broc has said, if you want a 3 year replacement schedule then it needs to be built into the costs at the beginning and not somewhere in the middle.

    The idea behind this was to ensure that ICT (in all matters) is included in the 1, 3 and 5 year development plan for the individual school and cluster in general.

    This has not been happening and it will leave schools in some difficulty.

    This is mainly down to the people that sign on the dotted line (LEP, heads, LA bods) not communicating or not having listened to what they were told to do. The NCSL course on this is likely to be revamped to try and redress some of these issues.

    Also remember that Pathfinder schools may have had additional funding from other areas or projects and this has allowed them to be flexible about purchasing arrangements.

    As for websites ... BSF is meant to include a portal and MLE ... this becomes the school website and it should be set up in such a manner that even a numpty can change the news, the calendar etc .... this is what many schools have been asking for for a whileand why the work that SysMan_MK has done on Joomla has been so popular.

  6. #21
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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    A school close to me has taken their ICT out of the managed service. They had a site manager working on site for the PFL. Any IT requests had to come in writting to him from the headteacher, they where then sent to the PFL's head office to see if was a chargable request. Once confirmation of charge or no charge was agreed the PFL scheduled their IT tech to do the job. If it was a chargable request the Head had to agree to the cost and fax a purchase order over to the PFL's head office, who them scheduled the job.

    Think 3 weeks to move or install printers.

    A two pence piece in a floppy drive was counted as vandalism and the drive replaced, even if the drive worked after the coin was removed. 10 minute job £65 charge. Replacing 15 in August soon mounts up.

    The school now have their own IT dept and things are looking up.

  7. #22

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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    @BooBoo - See, that is the exact thing that worries me about BSF and managed services.

    I think it would be terrible for schools to end up with that sort of service - especially when it costs so much.

  8. #23
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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    @Grommit

    It is meant to be per child per year ... if it is not then someone is not giving you the correct figures or is moving the money elsewhere. As Broc has said, if you want a 3 year replacement schedule then it needs to be built into the costs at the beginning and not somewhere in the middle.

    .
    thats what I said.. 1200 Pupils at £100 each = £120 000.00

    and times by the 4 years after BSF = £480 000.00 needs to be found for the BASIC service.. and no changing of Floppy Drives with 2p's in...

  9. #24

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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    The per child per year is meant to be a lump sum at the beginning ... so if you are told it is £100 then for the 5 years you get £100 x 1200 x 5 = £600,000.

    Admittedly, this covers the spend on *all* IT, so you get the servers, the software, the desktop, the laptops and then you work in the additional costs (replacement after 3 years, spare parts, additional hardware, etc)

    I have only seen one plan so far to cover these costs and it was ok ... but made some serious errors on pricing (failing to price from the catalogue and basing it on the original bulk purchase costs!) and failed to take into consideration little things like user stupidity / user damage.

    Who told you that you only have funding for one year? Did they tell you everything it would have to cover? Does it presume that the costs of the network infrastructure are already covered? IWBs and projectors?

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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    If only i had a budget of half a million pound for 5 years....

    think of the things i could do...

    lets see what i get at the moment...

    *thinks*
    so thats £5,000 .. times by 5... 25,000?

    yeah I can see a big difference there... :P

  11. #26
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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    Will toner and paper be included.
    because i get 10k a year really but we use 5 on toner and paper??

    so do we get toner and paper??
    or is it another £25k on top of the half a mil?

  12. #27

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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    It is up to your school / LEP / LA ... you can view consumables as a running coast and it has to be paid for by the school, but it does mean that you get to haggle with suppliers and you can get good deals depending on the time of year, month, week, day ...

    Or you can roll it into the overall costs and have less to buy hardware with.

    The Capital funding used to cover many IT costs will not be there, but other funding often used is ... SSAT funding, funding from research projects, grants from charitable groups ... and there is nothing stopping schools from using this money to do extra things. The support for these extras will have to be negotiated with the managed service company but it is workable. ("What do you mean 'the shutdown time for servers after the UPS kicked in is not quick enough? Have you by any chance loaded anything extra onto the UPS that we don't know about? Oh ... another 3 servers ... yes ... that might explain it!" - conversation overheard at a company that provides managed services for a very large UK business ... so it is not just schools!)

  13. #28
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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    hehe so we could hand them £500,000 and then after 3 years they could go bust...
    and then we would have nothing??

    great :P

  14. #29
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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    hehe so we could hand them £500,000 and then after 3 years they could go bust...
    and then we would have nothing??

    great :P

  15. #30
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    Re: BSF Services Costings

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    The per child per year is meant to be a lump sum at the beginning ... so if you are told it is £100 then for the 5 years you get £100 x 1200 x 5 = £600,000.

    Admittedly, this covers the spend on *all* IT, so you get the servers, the software, the desktop, the laptops and then you work in the additional costs (replacement after 3 years, spare parts, additional hardware, etc)
    Yes you get the £600 000.00 at the start.. Subtract the £120 000.00 for Basic Managed Services.. you have £380 000.00

    Then you invest in CCTV, Access Control, Servers, New ICT Suites, MIS, Network Infrastructure, IWB's Projectors etc ... really there is nothing left from the £380 000.00 infact there will be a shortfall like at most places....

    (as you will be restricted in where you can purchase equiptment from and there will be no ICT Manager to check up on the costs)

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    Who told you that you only have funding for one year? Did they tell you everything it would have to cover? Does it presume that the costs of the network infrastructure are already covered? IWBs and projectors?
    The BSF Consultants told me that there would be only funding for the first year and the other years the school must find it's own funding..

    So if the school spent their money on upgrading that's thier choice as they would be in a 5 year contract with the MSC...

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