+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 49
BSF Thread, BSF - The Quetions in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; We are currently arranging series of podcasts with bsf companies that have won bids. We plan to talk about how ...
  1. #1

    russdev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Leicestershire
    Posts
    6,985
    Thank Post
    735
    Thanked 559 Times in 374 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Rep Power
    206

    BSF - The Quetions

    We are currently arranging series of podcasts with bsf companies that have won bids. We plan to talk about how they implement bsf contracts etc.

    So what questions do you want asking? It is your chance to ask bsf winners those questions..

    Russell

  2. #2
    Grommit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Weston-super-Mare
    Posts
    1,335
    Thank Post
    31
    Thanked 54 Times in 31 Posts
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    Quote Originally Posted by russdev
    We are currently arranging series of podcasts with bsf companies that have won bids. We plan to talk about how they implement bsf contracts etc.

    So what questions do you want asking? It is your chance to ask bsf winners those questions..

    Russell
    Sorry isn't that "company" not "companies" as RM have won 90% of the bids..

    Question 1/ Can I still be the Network Manager and keep my Position and Pay Scale?

  3. #3


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,202
    Thank Post
    442
    Thanked 1,033 Times in 813 Posts
    Rep Power
    341

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    How long after the TUPE process will you wait before issuing redundancy notices?

  4. #4

    beeswax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,285
    Thank Post
    285
    Thanked 225 Times in 153 Posts
    Rep Power
    132

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    One of the many things which came up in conversation with the deputy head in charge of BSF at our school, was,
    "I work a lot of unpaid extra hours in order that certain things can be delivered at a certain time, and I do this because I believe in what the school is trying to achieve. There is an ethos here, and in many schools, where you go the extra mile in order that a pupil, or pupils can fulfill a task. How are private companies and managed networks going to maintain that ethos when we are no longer answerable to the teachers and pupils?"
    If you think many of us do the minimum work required, I refer to this post of mine.

    A second point arose some days later talking to the head. I think he was seeing how much we'd be prepared to do "behind the company's back", as in,
    "Surely, we wouldn't have to call the helpdesk in order that a simple task such as reminding a teacher which laptop keys they need to press in order to have screen and monitor working simultaneously?"
    The simple answer to that is, yes you would, otherwise the company would think that it's providing a perfectly acceptable service, when in fact it's not meeting any of its targets.
    The person who pays my salary dictates what I do, and if I don't like it then I get out.

  5. #5
    Grommit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Weston-super-Mare
    Posts
    1,335
    Thank Post
    31
    Thanked 54 Times in 31 Posts
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd
    How long after the TUPE process will you wait before issuing redundancy notices?
    90 days.. They only have to keep you for 90 dyas after thet they can do what they want..

    Quote Originally Posted by beeswax
    One of the many things which came up in conversation with the deputy head in charge of BSF at our school, was,
    "I work a lot of unpaid extra hours in order that certain things can be delivered at a certain time, and I do this because I believe in what the school is trying to achieve. There is an ethos here, and in many schools, where you go the extra mile in order that a pupil, or pupils can fulfill a task. How are private companies and managed networks going to maintain that ethos when we are no longer answerable to the teachers and pupils?"
    If you think many of us do the minimum work required, .
    A couple of years ago I was in a BSF meeting with a lot of companies in an "informal" chat with the Council...

    It got a bit heated around responsibilities and I mentioned that my first responsibility is for the School and the school is my only priority.. and a company director stated quite clearly that his responsibility is first to his shareholders and then to the client..

    So I sarcastically mentioned "Oh i see it's every child matters with you then".. and it then kicked off a bit

  6. #6


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,202
    Thank Post
    442
    Thanked 1,033 Times in 813 Posts
    Rep Power
    341

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    From April 2007 the TUPE regulations were enhanced, these are notes from legislation:

    1) The transferee inherits any outstanding liabilities
    - failure to observe terms and conditions
    - failure to observe employment rights
    Employee can make a claim against the transferee for
    - Breech of contract
    - Personal injury
    - Sex discrimination
    Even if it takes place after the transfer

    2) Employees position
    transfered employees under TUPE retain all the rights and obligations which are transferred to the new employer except occupational pensions.
    Terms and conditions cannot be varied by the transferee when the principle reason is:
    - the transfer itself
    - a reason connected with the transfer which is not an economic, technical or organisational reason entailing changes in the workforce.
    n.b. an employer cannot impose new terms and conditions without the agreement of the employees, any changes would have to be agreed by the employee or by his union representative

    3) Consultation with the affected workforce must take place prior to the transfer. The employer must inform the workforce and/or the recognised trade union.
    - that the transfer is going to take place, when and why
    - the legal, economic and social implication of the transfer for the affected employees.
    - whether the employer envisages taking any action (re-organisation) in connection with the transfer which will affect the employees and if so what acion is envisaged
    - the previous employer is also required to give information to the employees prior to the transfer, they must disclose whether the prospective new employer envisages carrying out any action which will affect the employees and if so what.

  7. #7


    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,414
    Thank Post
    184
    Thanked 356 Times in 285 Posts
    Rep Power
    149

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    ^ lmao Good man.

    Seriously though, good man. You cant privatise a child education FFS. Even if we all take a selfish vieew of it; you can privatise *the next generations* education ie the people who will be supporting us in the future!

    I just dont understand what the government are trying to achive here?

    They will be paying more money.
    They will have FAR less flexible staff/support - i really cant see a company popping in to take photos/edit videos etc
    The service will be much slower aswell - get to the back of the que...

    This countries going down the pan, what with more and more schools being owned by companies and religious bodies we're going to end up like the US - ie whoevers mummy and daddy have the most money/sway...

  8. #8

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    10,074
    Thank Post
    1,384
    Thanked 1,889 Times in 1,170 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    614

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    I think I have previously mentioned in here that I have been puzzled by some people who think that the LA going for the managed service is the better option ... if they TUPE you it will be under the same rules as if RM, Ramesys, Captia or others ... and there is no guarantee that they will remain part of the LA (look at those that have been spun off and picked up by Capita).

    Anyway ... back to the original question.

    My questions to ask in the podcast are ...

    If a person from the school knows that the introduction of certain technology can serously improve the attainment and achievement of students, can lower the administrative load of staff or provide cost savings for various areas of the school, yet it is not specified in the contract with the Managed Service Provider ... what would be the process by which a school can implement this technology?

    If a technician is placed at a particular school who comletes their performance management, looks after their CPD (remembering that the school's needs do not always match that of the company or the individual technician), and deals with disciplinary issues.

    The lack of union representation in some schools can mean that support staff have very little representations. As the support staff would now be employed by a company what is the expected impact of unions on negotiations for pay or conditions. After all, if the union is not happy and asks for a walk out from one company it now affects a range of schools instead of a single school.

    What scope is there for school based NMs and technicians to still be actively involved in local, regional and national interest groups and working parties (town / area based, LA learning platforms groups, RBC-based, Becta, SSAT, BCS, etc)?

  9. #9


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    8,202
    Thank Post
    442
    Thanked 1,033 Times in 813 Posts
    Rep Power
    341

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    If a person from the school knows that the introduction of certain technology can serously improve the attainment and achievement of students, can lower the administrative load of staff or provide cost savings for various areas of the school, yet it is not specified in the contract with the Managed Service Provider ... what would be the process by which a school can implement this technology?
    Additionally, If the company in question cannot/does not supply this technology (or this particular equipment model) Can the service/equipment be purchased elsewhere?

  10. #10
    Grommit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Weston-super-Mare
    Posts
    1,335
    Thank Post
    31
    Thanked 54 Times in 31 Posts
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook

    What scope is there for school based NMs and technicians to still be actively involved in local, regional and national interest groups and working parties (town / area based, LA learning platforms groups, RBC-based, Becta, SSAT, BCS, etc)?
    That is a good point GD... There is going to be a massive cull of IT Professionals in the Education Sector.. there is a massive pool of knowledge that is just going to be wiped out by "profit"

    What a loss to the Country... I mean it's not quite the same as shipping a few thousand helpdesk roles offshore..

    We are talking about IT Managers and Technicians that had years of knowledge

  11. #11

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    10,074
    Thank Post
    1,384
    Thanked 1,889 Times in 1,170 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    614

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    @Grommit
    Also remember that not everyone out there is as pro-active as we would like or schools need.

    We *all* know of schools (even our own) where there are people working as NMs or Techies that are a severe hindrance to the T&L that should be going one ... it can be through laziness, incompetence, lack of skills, ego, paranioa and a number of others ...

    We have mentioned previously that it is roughly split into thirds ... one third pushes the boundary, one third has the status quo and one third are below par ...

    I'm going to add another question.

    What will be the procedure or time scale for removing staff that are found to be below standard for the roles they are being employed for and what will be the process for trying to upskill or re-train them?

    Let's face it ... the company might choose to move a complete idiot to a different school to fill in the numbers required and the last thing a school needs in all of this is a complete waste of space arriving and making things worse during what will be a stressful time anyway.

  12. #12
    Grommit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Weston-super-Mare
    Posts
    1,335
    Thank Post
    31
    Thanked 54 Times in 31 Posts
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    @Grommit

    Let's face it ... the company might choose to move a complete idiot to a different school to fill in the numbers required and the last thing a school needs in all of this is a complete waste of space arriving and making things worse during what will be a stressful time anyway.
    Good point... Lets bring another point into the topic..

    OFSTED.. now how many of us do the most bizarre things that are OTT and not standard practice to make sure that the OFSTED runs smoothly ..

    I mean the teaching staff are all running like maniacs and the SLT are freakin out...

    So how will RM techies be involved in this ?.. because in OFSTED every PC and every white boad has to work with a spare in the corridor in case of PC or Projector failure.. etc..

    Teachers come up with some awkward ideas to teach during the inspections and we have to make sure that it all works

    (i.e.Assembly.. powerpoint with embedded video, DVD to be played, CD with music and a mic for the teacher) all to be run in a 15min slot.)

    Sorry whats that?..... you are being observed next period by OFSTED inspectors and the projector is not working... "sorry I have a job list and I don't work for the school ...... please contact the helpdesk and a job ticket will be issued..." said the now deceased techie

  13. #13
    tosca925's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Midlands
    Posts
    1,547
    Thank Post
    4
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    Rep Power
    22

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    Sorry... you are being observed next period by OFSTED inspectors and the projector is not working... "sorry I have a job list and I don't work for the school ...... please contact the helpdesk and a job ticket will be issued..." said the now deceased techie
    Can you imagine the teachers and SLT if this was the situation. Some schools don't know how lucky they are with their IT support, but i think eventually they will find out when they get a second class managed service support bod.

    It will mean the good schools who use ICT to its max and try new things will drop down with ICT and the por schools who have poor ICT staff for whatever reason will see a maybe improvement.

    What i don't like is how little the school or SLT know whats going on or what is going to happen to us. DO they realise that I or any of my team could be moved to another school or central point and they will get a password.printer cartridge changing numpty to replace 3 of us? I doubt it and i also get the feeling that when they do thre will be uproar but it will be too late then.

  14. #14

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    18,529
    Thank Post
    527
    Thanked 2,648 Times in 2,049 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    925

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    Quote Originally Posted by tosca925
    What i don't like is how little the school or SLT know whats going on or what is going to happen to us. DO they realise that I or any of my team could be moved to another school or central point and they will get a password.printer cartridge changing numpty to replace 3 of us? I doubt it and i also get the feeling that when they do thre will be uproar but it will be too late then.
    That is my big thing at the moment - no-one knows about this scheme in our school and whenever I mention it the other staff I work with they don't believe that the likelyhood will be that my role vanishes and is replaced by a drooling box ticker...

  15. #15

    beeswax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,285
    Thank Post
    285
    Thanked 225 Times in 153 Posts
    Rep Power
    132

    Re: BSF - The Quetions

    I did ask our "man in the council" what provision there would be for training and update of skills once we'd been moved across to private hands. He usually gets back to me pretty quickly, but not this time.



SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •