BSF Thread, Building Schools for the Future plans to be scrapped in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by RobW
Academic evidence would say that wouldn't it? Kids are taught completely differently nowadays - they pass ...
7th July 2010, 01:54 PM #91
So you say that people doing independent research would still come back with 'everything's peachy'? I doubt that, very much. You seem to think the govt somehow controls the UK academic community.
Originally Posted by RobW
So, once again you're simply talking of 'perception' driven by daily mail like articles. I want evidence. Facts, figures, etc...
7th July 2010, 02:22 PM #92
Daily Wail not in sight. I imagine you'll feel at home reading the Guardian link. :-)
Originally Posted by localzuk
Independent article where Ed Balls states that the problems lay beyond the classroom.
Computers blamed as reading standards slump - Education News, Education - The Independent
Guardian article? No way man. The lefties can't think this too!
Falling school standards: Can students cope at University? | Education | guardian.co.uk
Times article about a report by Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).
British pupils falling in world rankings - Times Online
BBC article about a report by Reform (Right Wingers so BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!)
BBC NEWS | UK | Education | Maths exams 'have become easier'
Belfast Telegraph referencing Doctor Bernard Lamb & Professor Loreto Todd (Academics)
How falling standards of English are forcing colleges into drastic action - Education, News - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk
Royal Society of Chemistry
Science pupils couldn't handle O-level questions in online competition
Research by Michael Shayer, professor of applied psychology at King's College, University of London
Children are less able than they used to be | Education | The Guardian
A few statements by academics in amonst those, so will that do? You say you haven't seen any evidence but I imagine that is because you haven't looked.
Ask whoever enters the assessment data into the schools MIS about the "massaging of grade boundaries" over recent years.
For a laugh, you could even have a search through the TES forums.
Thanks to AyatollahPies from:
7th July 2010, 02:32 PM #93
Much appreciated. I will see if I can dig out some of the studies discussed in some of those articles. Will be an interesting read. (As you can probably tell, I don't take media articles at face value).
Thanks to localzuk from:
AyatollahPies (7th July 2010)
7th July 2010, 02:32 PM #94
I dont think its school standards that have changed, although schools have to deal with much more - social workers etc. I think its more like the life they have. It is so much easier, my generation was on the edge. We had it a bit harder, the generation growing up now have it easier with benefits etc.
As for the Uni standards I dont think tests are getting easier I just think the availability of information is a lot easier and people dont have to wait for a book to sign out or carry 10 books around all day. They logon a PC and connect to the internet. There we go, they still spend hours and hours studying. A lot have part time jobs, then study and have 1 day every now and then for fun. And with CTRL + F they can usually find something much easier
As for reading issues, the kids have mobiles and send texts which the short chat all the time and they do it because its simply easier and lazy.
But then this is a BSF discussion not about what the kids are doing
7th July 2010, 02:43 PM #95
- Rep Power
When I read arguments about standards and dumbing down I often wonder if way back whenever there were worries about the newfangled printing press which made it so much easier to distribute written material that that the ability to memorise would decline
7th July 2010, 02:59 PM #96
I did find some articles with the opposing view too. I just think BSF was being used as a cloak to hide the real issues that are affecting education. I agree that a nice new building is more welcoming than a dilapidated one, but it's the curriculum and the standard of the teaching of it, that surely makes all the difference?
Originally Posted by localzuk
7th July 2010, 03:02 PM #97
It isn't an either/or situation. It is a very complex puzzle, and buildings are one of the pieces. The BSF building program tied in nicely with the government's environmental plans also (reduced energy consumption in new buildings).
Originally Posted by AyatollahPies
7th July 2010, 03:53 PM #98
Prove it ;b New-style Academies has prompted more scrutiny of old-style Academies some of which have shiny buildings and AFAIK there's no clear picture on whether they have done anything to improve attainment. As ever we're stuck with trying to compare Apples to Oranges. Same applies to the school exams I took where amongst other things, your grade reflected your performance *relative* to everyone else, and the shape of exams now. My experience (you can't argue with it): I've encountered plenty of the next generation with degrees who I instinctively think are too thick to have one, as in I'm ::gobsmacked:: to find out they have. Dunno, possibly a lot more spoon-feeding going on now, whereas possession of a degree used to be a good indicator of ability to research and think independently.
It is a very complex puzzle
Yup, this is a no-brainer - it's just a case of where you draw the "consistency" line i.e. the trade off between efficient managability and uniqueness. Now that BSF is mostly done for I'm hoping more people will be less defensive and stop massively over-selling the benefits of something that's rarely genuinely innovative about their Windows systems and perhaps focus instead on some serious, economical best practices, where amongst other things "economical" definitely includes accounting for your time and energy.
Managed services are viable when they can use economies of scale
7th July 2010, 04:11 PM #99
- Rep Power
Ours would hav erequired us to pay them a fee for each device they took, so made more sense to throw them.
Originally Posted by PeteM
7th July 2010, 04:14 PM #100
...and of course the two are not linked in any way....
Originally Posted by mthomas08
7th July 2010, 04:22 PM #101
always one that has to be picky ...... stop drinking coffee i didnt want to make the post even longer by being specific!
I am talking about the arguement about quality of teaching and blaming the day and age or blaming the kids or when we was kids etc etc. I dont really want to be specific.
BSF was never about changing the above, maybe make the kids a bit less stressful and maybe more space for teaching is the only way it would of effected them. The main objective for BSF was to bring schools up to scratch and no crappy old buildings/ICT Equipment/Out source IT Support. Am I missing anything? yes it has to do with the kids well ....... its a school. But the arguement was going off topic, so i put a little sarcasm there. BSF was never a debate over our generation or the previous generation being better taught etc. Thats where the topic was going.
Last edited by mthomas08; 7th July 2010 at 04:29 PM.
7th July 2010, 04:31 PM #102
- Rep Power
A lot of the IT companies have been lying to us saying if its not in warranty we can't have it in the new school. This is a load of rubbish. You can take whatever you want to the new school the new equipment just doesn't go on the same managed system ie. the it company doesn't have to fix it with in 10 mins etc. Don't listen to the IT company they will tell you what they want to happen not what you can do if they like it or not.
7th July 2010, 04:35 PM #103
I think thats one problem with have had with northgate, they tell us in ball point that the way they are doing things is the way it goes. BUT they fail to mention that its not a must have.
Our Heads were told BSF+ICT is the way it is, but we found out that out sourcing ICT was only a choice. You can go BSF and get the new buildings and not out source the ICT. Doesnt matter now
7th July 2010, 04:36 PM #104
I think it'd be fairly obvious that I'd disagree with this.
Originally Posted by PiqueABoo
It's easy to take a step back and a blanket view and say - all schools have servers, they generally have home folders and public shares, they can all use vanilla windows and we can put in £300 Dells with Win 7 Pro in every classroom, job done.
But at the moment the decisions I make are based on whats best for this school, and what is right for this school might not be right for a school 10 minutes up the road. We have focused on providing laptops for all teachers, shyed away from Wifi and looked at Multiseating to cut costs. Like I said above a quick view down the networking, VLE and MIS forums will quickly show off how different each school is.
Now it may be great to get a sudden influx of investment and having new 'standard kit' put in. Fine, but what happens in 6 months time when the librarian wants to purchase a new database that will require a new server? Can I instantly provision a new VM? Do I need to get in touch with the management company and wait 2 weeks on a SLA? Will they charge us $$$ extra because it wans't part of the original spec? Will they so 'no' because they refuse to support a server with that database on?
What if we take on an additional member of staff and need PC for their office? What about conflicts in general day to day SLA's? How quickly will they resolve a fualty class room PC? or a projector lamp failure? What if I want to set up a temporary suite of 5 thin clients for staff training over three days?
Yes there is economics of scale, I just don't think centrally managed ICT is the right solution. Buying consortiums of secondary schools, maybe sharing a NM between two of three schools. But wholesale central managent, I think overall end user serice will suffer.
7th July 2010, 04:43 PM #105
- Rep Power
Totally agree with you. The school's strive to be outstanding but surely making a standard managed solution from a school takes away the flexability and ingenuity needed to create an outstanding school. I just don't think Managed services understand how flexable a school needs to be.
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