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BSF Thread, The Fallen... in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by Dos_Box Some wil be excellent, some will be good, and some will be abysmal. Unfortunately we will ...
  1. #16
    petectid's Avatar
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    Re: The Fallen...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box
    Some wil be excellent, some will be good, and some will be abysmal. Unfortunately we will only find out is a few years which is which. I blame the 2 in 5 schools (IMHO) whos ICT was p**s poor for brining this on. For every 5 schools rolled up into a BSF project 3 had good to excellent ICT setups ad 2 had not bothered to do anything, a failure of either senior manglement of poor network management or just apethy. It is because of these 2 schools that the othere will proberbly lose the facilities they currently enjoy and will have to pay extra to get them back in the future due to the contracts only providing a 'base level' of service.
    Dos_Box I know you work for the LEA up here but were do you get your figures from. I'm not disputing them yet but I am interested in your sources.

  2. #17

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    Re: The Fallen...

    nonononono .... DB doesn't work for an LEA ... he works for us ;-), you must be thinking of someone else with a similar name (shhhhh .... people are watching, you know)

    Those figures have been mentioned a few times to me, and have been part of talks by Becta, DfES and companies bidding for BSF. I suppose they come from the ICT audits that are done in the various regions and used in comarison with things like the PANDA and PAT ... seeing if there is a link between the amount of equipment and whether it has had any impact. Obviously OFSTED have had an input into this bit too ... so trying to pin it down to just one organisation making the judgement is difficult.

  3. #18

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    Re: The Fallen...

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    Quote Originally Posted by john
    I suppose it could be though of as something similar, it contains globalisation and an evil ruler and some dudes that want to break free from it. Hey the more I think about it the more its BSF set to Music!
    Does that maker Gazza, Scary Bush and the Bohemaians all members of schoolforge then?
    Yup, sure does hehehe Its got some good links to BSF though aint it It was an excellent weekend though, shame it seems so long ago Never mind roll on next years birthday celebrations

  4. #19


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    Re: The Fallen...

    The BSF and others state that the "new" ICT systems must be Non-Proprietary... and open..
    Who said this? All I can see is the Becta Tech Specification that specifies things in terms of open standards. On the face of it it is open but it does not preclude proprietry software and many bits looks like they were written as a way of including to include many MS products. eg word processing documents *must* be saved as ODF *or* txt - doesn't preclude MSOffice, but of course nobody will actually save word processing docs as .txt

    and even if they did they can say that CC3 is not propietary as you can still buy and use a number of other AD integrated solutions too ...
    They could say that, but it would be utter rubbish.
    I can buy lots of things to integrate to windows but that doesn't mean windows is non-proprietry. Anyway I think this is slightly beyond the point because BSF doesn't preclude non-propriety, in many ways it encourages it -eg the early day motion (now signed by 67 MP's!) only large companies are allowed to bid and most of the bidders are MS partner companies (probably MS MoU precludes them from OSS - seems to anyway).

    As for Contractual documents, These are Public Domain after the bid is won as it is public money. Probably available on the counties website but certainly available by Freedom of Information search.

  5. #20


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    Re: The Fallen...

    ooh. my 1000 post

  6. #21
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    Re: The Fallen...

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd
    The BSF and others state that the "new" ICT systems must be Non-Proprietary... and open..
    Who said this? All I can see is the Becta Tech Specification that specifies things in terms of open standards. On the face of it it is open but it does not preclude proprietry software and many bits looks like they were written as a way of including to include many MS products. eg word processing documents *must* be saved as ODF *or* txt - doesn't preclude MSOffice, but of course nobody will actually save word processing docs as .txt

    and even if they did they can say that CC3 is not propietary as you can still buy and use a number of other AD integrated solutions too ...
    They could say that, but it would be utter rubbish.
    I can buy lots of things to integrate to windows but that doesn't mean windows is non-proprietry. Anyway I think this is slightly beyond the point because BSF doesn't preclude non-propriety, in many ways it encourages it -eg the early day motion (now signed by 67 MP's!) only large companies are allowed to bid and most of the bidders are MS partner companies (probably MS MoU precludes them from OSS - seems to anyway).

    As for Contractual documents, These are Public Domain after the bid is won as it is public money. Probably available on the counties website but certainly available by Freedom of Information search.
    What Scares the crap out of me tho is...

    80% of the Contracts awarded so far are for RM...so therfore RM will be taking over the IT of English Schools... as well as the KS3 Testing...

    God help us all..

    The last government IT thinktank apifiny was the NHS CFH IT Contract .. and look at how that disaster is turning out ...

  7. #22

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    Re: The Fallen...

    Government IT projects: Over-budget, never on time, and never works properly.

    Their ID card scheme (and the NHS NPfIT, amongst other "systems") were/are both disasters, what will make this any different?

  8. #23

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    Re: The Fallen...

    Quote Originally Posted by petectid
    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box
    Some wil be excellent, some will be good, and some will be abysmal. Unfortunately we will only find out is a few years which is which. I blame the 2 in 5 schools (IMHO) whos ICT was p**s poor for brining this on. For every 5 schools rolled up into a BSF project 3 had good to excellent ICT setups ad 2 had not bothered to do anything, a failure of either senior manglement of poor network management or just apethy. It is because of these 2 schools that the othere will proberbly lose the facilities they currently enjoy and will have to pay extra to get them back in the future due to the contracts only providing a 'base level' of service.
    Dos_Box I know you work for the LEA up here but were do you get your figures from. I'm not disputing them yet but I am interested in your sources.
    This is from personal experience when I am called out to visit schools who are having 'problems'. The majority of schools are good to excelent, however the 2 out of 5 are the school sthat you never get to hear from (usually they have their heads in the sand) and we only fin dout about them when they contact us to complain that a piece new of educational software is not NT 4.0 or Win 98 compatable. They are out there, and in large numbers.

  9. #24

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    Re: The Fallen...

    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    Government IT projects: Over-budget, never on time, and never works properly.
    To make things worse, many (most?) of these Govt IT projects were undertaken by govt departments who had already been outsourced and so lacked IT skills & knowledge, so they had to bring in consultants to advise them.

    Where are schools going to get their advice & guidance from after managed services take over? Will they be able to afford 'consultants' rates from their managed service providers I wonder?

    My role in school today is part Network Manager, part IT Architect and part IT Consultant, as I suspect many other school NMs are too. My school gets all three roles done for the price of one. They certainly won't get this from a managed service, as the architect & consultant roles will be premium priced optional extras. This is precisely where the managed services comapnies will aim to make their money from schools. You can't make much profit out of shipping 'tin' and providing low-level technical support onsite these days.

  10. #25
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    Re: The Fallen...

    Newham has fallen to RM

    RM appointed preferred bidder for £20 million Newham LEA educational

    RM will equip approximately 140 classrooms with interactive whole-class teaching environments comprising interactive whiteboards, the Kaleidos VTLE (virtual teaching and learning environment) and a range of interactive learning content from RM and other educational software publishers. Teachers will be provided with Tablet PCs for planning and lesson delivery, with teaching assistants and more than 4,000 pupils receiving notebook computers. Underpinning the whole-class teaching environments will be Community Connect 3 networks with wireless capabilities in each school, combined with an authority-wide portal based on Microsoft SharePoint Portal server.

    Warwickshire is RM

    Dudley is RM

  11. #26

    russdev's Avatar
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    Re: The Fallen...

    Hi Grommit


    Can I ask a question when last time you used and managed an rm network...

    Russ

  12. #27

    webman's Avatar
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    Re: The Fallen...

    Underpinning the whole-class teaching environments will be Community Connect 3 networks
    Sounds good to me

  13. #28
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    Re: The Fallen...

    Quote Originally Posted by russdev
    Hi Grommit


    Can I ask a question when last time you used and managed an rm network...

    Russ
    Ohh... about 6 years ago ... just before I threw them off site and set up a vanilla network with Ranger as backup...

    I have seen CC3 and all its wonders... Bit Like Viglen and Classlink...

    Please don't tell me you are going to defend RM ?

  14. #29
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    Re: The Fallen...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit
    Quote Originally Posted by russdev
    Hi Grommit


    Can I ask a question when last time you used and managed an rm network...

    Russ
    Ohh... about 6 years ago ... just before I threw them off site and set up a vanilla network with Ranger as backup...

    I have seen CC3 and all its wonders... Bit Like Viglen and Classlink...

    Please don't tell me you are going to defend RM ?
    Err sorry thay was just after RM said to me "If we give you the Domain Administrator Password we can no longer support your school"...

    That was just after they sold and installed a HDD for neary £1000 to a primary down the road..

  15. #30

    webman's Avatar
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    Re: The Fallen...

    Whoever said that was having you one. It's your network - you still bought a product from RM so still have the right to support from them.

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