Alternative Procurement Business Case

monkeyx · 06-11-2009, 03:27 PM

Our school is starting an Alternative Procurement Business Case to opt out of centrally managed BSF funding for ICT and FM.

I am looking for other schools that are going to be attempting something similar or have tried something similar too see if we can pool ideas and experience.

Thanks,

Tim

GoldenWonder · 06-11-2009, 04:33 PM

The documents I've read from our LEA mention (almost proudly) that no school has sucessfully managed to provide a viable business case.

Anyone know if thats actually true?

GrumbleDook · 06-11-2009, 04:41 PM

It is true, no school has been successful.

Some have been put off it by their LA, some have not been able to get the paperwork together, those who have and have gone all the way have been unsuccessful, with one school choosing to pull out of the managed service and forego the IT investment (whilst still staying in the building side of things).

Paul Haigh has a good blog about the experiences he had when putting the application forward, and how they have had to manage things after being unsuccessful.

Although I have not seen any of the reports about why they have not been successful there are a few things that I heard 3rd hand which have been raised including financial viability, TCO, sustainability and segregation from LA.

Keep plugging and let us all know how it goes.

Best of luck with it.

monkeyx · 06-11-2009, 04:53 PM

Thanks for the updates.

I am in contact with Paul.

I am not really hoping for luck, as luck will not cut it

I am hoping that it will be easier to make a case against an incumbent wave 1 BSF provider though, rather than some mythical contract that has yet to be delievered

Tim

e_g_r · 06-11-2009, 05:30 PM

We are looking at trying to opt out on the basis that the managed service dosn't offer best value over our existing systems.

Can anyone shed some light on the following queries;

If legacy kit isn't transfered who pays for replacement? The managed service or does it come out of the pot of money being offered to schools in an LEA?

If for what ever political or economic reason your school is not re built or refurbed but you are signed upto the managed service - who would pay to bring your existing network infrastructure upto date. i.e. replacing cat5 + cat5e with cat6 - managed servie or school money

If you were succesfull in not buying into the managed service how would the school get on with integrated MIS and other stuff?

How do the managed service calculate staffing levels? If they have one on site techie how do they deal with instant multiple teaching and learning problems.

Any solid advice is most welcome.

e_g_r · 06-11-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrumbleDook

It is true, no school has been successful.

Some have been put off it by their LA, some have not been able to get the paperwork together, those who have and have gone all the way have been unsuccessful, with one school choosing to pull out of the managed service and forego the IT investment (whilst still staying in the building side of things).

Paul Haigh has a good blog about the experiences he had when putting the application forward, and how they have had to manage things after being unsuccessful.

Although I have not seen any of the reports about why they have not been successful there are a few things that I heard 3rd hand which have been raised including financial viability, TCO, sustainability and segregation from LA.

Keep plugging and let us all know how it goes.

Best of luck with it.

link?

tried google but didn't find anything

NewOrder · 06-11-2009, 07:38 PM

We are looking at trying to opt out on the basis that the managed service dosn't offer best value over our existing systems.

Can anyone shed some light on the following queries;

If legacy kit isn't transfered who pays for replacement? The managed service or does it come out of the pot of money being offered to schools in an LEA?

If for what ever political or economic reason your school is not re built or refurbed but you are signed upto the managed service - who would pay to bring your existing network infrastructure upto date. i.e. replacing cat5 + cat5e with cat6 - managed servie or school money

If you were succesfull in not buying into the managed service how would the school get on with integrated MIS and other stuff?

How do the managed service calculate staffing levels? If they have one on site techie how do they deal with instant multiple teaching and learning problems.

Any solid advice is most welcome.[/QUOTE]

Even multiple sponsor academies that run in excess of 5 schools have difficulty with the opt out. Often difficult for VFM and 14-19

Legacy equipment should be considered. It helps with sustainability and future costs. It should not be merely replaced. I would have concerns over this as it would indicate MSP interested in selling as much tin as possible. This leaves less money for transformation.

If you are not having a rebuild or refurb you are not in BSF. So no need for managed service.

The managed service should not be a one size fits all, it should be tailored. So if you are a school with good ICT, equipment, use, admin use, innovation and transformation then what you are offered should uplift you even further. If it does not then you can ask serious questions.

MIS think SIF.

One of the major issues with BSF is consultation and communication. Those that need to know tend to be missed out.

You would be surprised at the number of schools that do not attend meetings or when they do it never gets communicated at school level.

e_g_r · 06-11-2009, 09:29 PM

"If you are not having a rebuild or refurb you are not in BSF. So no need for managed service."

Thats the key, they make you sign up for the service with no guarante that you will get a new build or refurb if it all changes (gov/economy) were phase 3 of the build so if the Torys pull the plug we could end up with same old school but managed service.

If this is the case who pays for the cable upgrade?

e_g_r · 09-11-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyx

Our school is starting an Alternative Procurement Business Case to opt out of centrally managed BSF funding for ICT and FM.

I am looking for other schools that are going to be attempting something similar or have tried something similar too see if we can pool ideas and experience.

Thanks,

Tim

i presume that you've seen/got these documents but if not here is a link

BSF ICT opt-out - WhatDoTheyKnow

e_g_r · 09-11-2009, 12:59 PM

Also link to failed school with usefull documents

http://www.villiers.ealing.sch.uk/apbc/

monkeyx · 09-11-2009, 02:08 PM

Yes thanks for those links, may be of use to others. I had found them on here before.

I have downloaded all the files for reference for our own bid.

Tim

Sylv3r · 09-11-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e_g_r

link?

tried google but didn't find anything

It used to be public, but now invite only by the looks of it.

http://haighysblog.blogspot.com/

e_g_r · 10-11-2009, 10:45 AM

Thanks, managed to find it and it is invite only.

Head is now doing a u turn on this, can't blame him realy as the LEA are putting presure on him to sign up.

Looks very difficult to do a APCD and get it through. The only other option would be to pull out altogether and miss out on the money.

russdev · 10-11-2009, 11:22 AM

Key here is the APBC is not about winning it but to use to give some leverage when you are part of BSF.

Russ

Face-Man · 10-11-2009, 05:38 PM

If it's leverage you require make sure you are involved as early as possible in the discussions. It is a lot easier to change the solution from the beginning rather than after the solution is imposed. If they try and fop you off don't take no for an answer and if you have to just turn up it worked for me.

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06-11-2009, 03:27 PM	#1
monkeyx Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 329 Thanks: 6 Thanked 42 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 16	Alternative Procurement Business Case Our school is starting an Alternative Procurement Business Case to opt out of centrally managed BSF funding for ICT and FM. I am looking for other schools that are going to be attempting something similar or have tried something similar too see if we can pool ideas and experience. Thanks, Tim

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Alternative Procurement Business Case

06-11-2009, 04:33 PM	#2
GoldenWonder Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 181 Thanks: 5 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts Rep Power: 6	The documents I've read from our LEA mention (almost proudly) that no school has sucessfully managed to provide a viable business case. Anyone know if thats actually true?

06-11-2009, 04:41 PM	#3
GrumbleDook Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Kettering, Northants Posts: 6,330 Thanks: 245 Thanked 550 Times in 297 Posts Blog Entries: 6 Rep Power: 129	It is true, no school has been successful. Some have been put off it by their LA, some have not been able to get the paperwork together, those who have and have gone all the way have been unsuccessful, with one school choosing to pull out of the managed service and forego the IT investment (whilst still staying in the building side of things). Paul Haigh has a good blog about the experiences he had when putting the application forward, and how they have had to manage things after being unsuccessful. Although I have not seen any of the reports about why they have not been successful there are a few things that I heard 3rd hand which have been raised including financial viability, TCO, sustainability and segregation from LA. Keep plugging and let us all know how it goes. Best of luck with it.

06-11-2009, 04:53 PM	#4
monkeyx Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 329 Thanks: 6 Thanked 42 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 16	Thanks for the updates. I am in contact with Paul. I am not really hoping for luck, as luck will not cut it I am hoping that it will be easier to make a case against an incumbent wave 1 BSF provider though, rather than some mythical contract that has yet to be delievered Tim

06-11-2009, 05:30 PM	#5
e_g_r Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rochdale Posts: 378 Thanks: 27 Thanked 15 Times in 10 Posts Rep Power: 11	We are looking at trying to opt out on the basis that the managed service dosn't offer best value over our existing systems. Can anyone shed some light on the following queries; If legacy kit isn't transfered who pays for replacement? The managed service or does it come out of the pot of money being offered to schools in an LEA? If for what ever political or economic reason your school is not re built or refurbed but you are signed upto the managed service - who would pay to bring your existing network infrastructure upto date. i.e. replacing cat5 + cat5e with cat6 - managed servie or school money If you were succesfull in not buying into the managed service how would the school get on with integrated MIS and other stuff? How do the managed service calculate staffing levels? If they have one on site techie how do they deal with instant multiple teaching and learning problems. Any solid advice is most welcome.

06-11-2009, 07:38 PM	#7
NewOrder Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Stafford Posts: 156 Thanks: 8 Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts Rep Power: 8	We are looking at trying to opt out on the basis that the managed service dosn't offer best value over our existing systems. Can anyone shed some light on the following queries; If legacy kit isn't transfered who pays for replacement? The managed service or does it come out of the pot of money being offered to schools in an LEA? If for what ever political or economic reason your school is not re built or refurbed but you are signed upto the managed service - who would pay to bring your existing network infrastructure upto date. i.e. replacing cat5 + cat5e with cat6 - managed servie or school money If you were succesfull in not buying into the managed service how would the school get on with integrated MIS and other stuff? How do the managed service calculate staffing levels? If they have one on site techie how do they deal with instant multiple teaching and learning problems. Any solid advice is most welcome.[/QUOTE] Even multiple sponsor academies that run in excess of 5 schools have difficulty with the opt out. Often difficult for VFM and 14-19 Legacy equipment should be considered. It helps with sustainability and future costs. It should not be merely replaced. I would have concerns over this as it would indicate MSP interested in selling as much tin as possible. This leaves less money for transformation. If you are not having a rebuild or refurb you are not in BSF. So no need for managed service. The managed service should not be a one size fits all, it should be tailored. So if you are a school with good ICT, equipment, use, admin use, innovation and transformation then what you are offered should uplift you even further. If it does not then you can ask serious questions. MIS think SIF. One of the major issues with BSF is consultation and communication. Those that need to know tend to be missed out. You would be surprised at the number of schools that do not attend meetings or when they do it never gets communicated at school level.

06-11-2009, 09:29 PM	#8
e_g_r Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rochdale Posts: 378 Thanks: 27 Thanked 15 Times in 10 Posts Rep Power: 11	"If you are not having a rebuild or refurb you are not in BSF. So no need for managed service." Thats the key, they make you sign up for the service with no guarante that you will get a new build or refurb if it all changes (gov/economy) were phase 3 of the build so if the Torys pull the plug we could end up with same old school but managed service. If this is the case who pays for the cable upgrade?

09-11-2009, 12:59 PM	#10
e_g_r Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rochdale Posts: 378 Thanks: 27 Thanked 15 Times in 10 Posts Rep Power: 11	Also link to failed school with usefull documents http://www.villiers.ealing.sch.uk/apbc/

09-11-2009, 02:08 PM	#11
monkeyx Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 329 Thanks: 6 Thanked 42 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 16	Yes thanks for those links, may be of use to others. I had found them on here before. I have downloaded all the files for reference for our own bid. Tim

10-11-2009, 10:45 AM	#13
e_g_r Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rochdale Posts: 378 Thanks: 27 Thanked 15 Times in 10 Posts Rep Power: 11	Thanks, managed to find it and it is invite only. Head is now doing a u turn on this, can't blame him realy as the LEA are putting presure on him to sign up. Looks very difficult to do a APCD and get it through. The only other option would be to pull out altogether and miss out on the money.

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10-11-2009, 11:22 AM	#14
russdev Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 6,524 Thanks: 103 Thanked 358 Times in 222 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 96	Key here is the APBC is not about winning it but to use to give some leverage when you are part of BSF. Russ

10-11-2009, 05:38 PM	#15
Face-Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: London Posts: 487 Thanks: 10 Thanked 41 Times in 27 Posts Rep Power: 24	If it's leverage you require make sure you are involved as early as possible in the discussions. It is a lot easier to change the solution from the beginning rather than after the solution is imposed. If they try and fop you off don't take no for an answer and if you have to just turn up it worked for me.