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BSF Thread, Hull BSF goes to RM (Research Machines) in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by cookie_monster I was going to say the same thing. I think the only problem with this is ...
  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie_monster View Post
    I was going to say the same thing. I think the only problem with this is that depending on your managed service provider you might be limited on what tasks you can perform on the new network.
    Yes, I expect to lose most rights, but Northgate are very keen (currently anyway) to work WITH the schools, not dictate. That may change, obviously, but for now everything's fine.

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    dalsoth's Avatar
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    Great if your school is willing to keep someone on the payroll who does not actually do anything technical on the system. Mine would not. It will be TUPE and bye bye or more likely i say bye first. Little while yet here though i expect before i really worry.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROBOCOP View Post
    Any news on how it's going in Hull yet? Has RM started staff/union meetings?
    Nope they haven't even told us RM have been awarded it yet. Typical Hull council. Unions haven't been in touch nor nothing!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    We've some time yet before BSF hits here but I would say this - I got into education IT to avoid such target based nonsense. I spent 7 years in sales living to various targets, it's not fun. I think I'll be moving on before BSF hits...
    absolutely.

    i tend to think we more 'thatcherised' now than we ever have been with targets and efficiencies,
    10 years after the supposed end of the great experiment in flogging everything off to the private sector, and making what was left in the public sector more 'efficient'. Increases in productivity over the years should not only have allowed wages to increase in line, but also what happened to all this free time that was promised ?

    Neither has materialized, and now many of those who in spite of the pay dampening have taken comfort in having enjoyable, diverse and rewarding jobs start to feel the biting winds of change.
    progress, eh ?

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    torledo's Avatar
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    So let me get this right - you're an IT Tech and you're concerned that the ICT contractor will want you to spend your time doing ICT related work rather than being an unpaid Teaching Support Assistant? How dare they - whatever next?
    eh, run that one past me again. I thought the promised increases in productivity via automation, technology enhancements and the mgmt of a professional org and the processes they bring to the table to make more efficient.....should infact leave plenty of time to be involved with other aspects of the school experience rather than more time spent on ICT related work.

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    I thought the promised increases in productivity via automation, technology enhancements and the mgmt of a professional org and the processes they bring to the table to make more efficient.....
    That sounds like consultant-speak for 'we can employ fewer people & make them work harder maximising profit.....'

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    That sounds like consultant-speak for 'we can employ fewer people & make them work harder maximising profit.....'
    that's exactly what it is. But the speak is supposed to be sold as increased productivity is good for the workers, when it is as you say about doing more with fewer bods. I'd say that increased productivity should provide the increased pay, time off and opportunities that it's supposed to bring. but doesn't.

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    Ask them to do a time and motion study of you and make recommendations how you can work more efficiently without increasing costs, reducing the flexibility of the services and facilities you deliver and still maintain motivation for you to work.

    A good bet is that they will decline or they will
    a) say that by changing the system things will work more efficiently (but it will raise cost due to purchases and reduce flexibility as you have to deliver only what they say, not what is requested)
    b) you have to sacrifice flexibility to keep costs down but still maintain efficiency (but surely it is about reducing costs and increasing efficiency without any sacrifice?)
    c) State that your motivation is the issue as you are not working with the team and only interested in protectionism.

    3 standard responses in people trying to get you to outsource. As mentioned previously, it is political ... and the best thing you can do is to make sure the school keeps flexibility ... even if it drives costs up. That gives you the best hope of it being a pleasant place to work.

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    You forgetting that a network has common components like dns, dhcp, AD and backup. These mean the the service provider can provide these at a lower cost and then bolt on extras and could still make a profit.

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    A fair chunk of this would have to be delivered locally (or have stuff on site to deliver it) to ensure performance is ok. Doing it off-site is not a sure fire way of making it cheaper. It also is part of the process of homogenisation which reduces flexibility unless thought out properly. It can work, but you need to insist on the flexibility (or the SLT do as they are the folk that carry the weight atm)

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholab View Post
    You forgetting that a network has common components like dns, dhcp, AD and backup. These mean the the service provider can provide these at a lower cost and then bolt on extras and could still make a profit.
    These are 'low cost' items to deliver anyway, compared to the rest of the school ICT infrastructure & support.

    There are only two places that real savings can be made; provide less equipment & lower support costs by downgrading and reducing the number of staff onsite.

    To pay for the managed service infrastructure & overheads, I believe my school will find costs go up, the amount of equipment will fall, and the level of onsite support will reduce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    eh, run that one past me again. I thought the promised increases in productivity via automation, technology enhancements and the mgmt of a professional org and the processes they bring to the table to make more efficient.....should infact leave plenty of time to be involved with other aspects of the school experience rather than more time spent on ICT related work.

    This is the problem - people like you not in the 'real world'.

    Do you think they want to bring in private sector to invest in more kit and efficient working practices to free up time for IT guys to do other stuff? No - they want to free up time so they can get rid of IT staff and reduce their costs. Doh!

    And the Strategic IT Manager on here who said he was kept because the stuff he did for the school was too important to let him TUPE - get real. All the stuff you listed in your job description won't be needed when RM get the managed service and have centralised everything you do. They will have said they don't want you - if they accepted you for TUPE and then made you redundant they would pick up your redundancy costs but since they obviously have told the council to keep you they either have to keep paying you to twiddle your thumbs or give you your P45 once RM are nicely settled in. Open your eyes guys!

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROBOCOP View Post
    This is the problem - people like you not in the 'real world'.

    And the Strategic IT Manager on here who said he was kept because the stuff he did for the school was too important to let him TUPE - get real. All the stuff you listed in your job description won't be needed when RM get the managed service and have centralised everything you do. They will have said they don't want you - if they accepted you for TUPE and then made you redundant they would pick up your redundancy costs but since they obviously have told the council to keep you they either have to keep paying you to twiddle your thumbs or give you your P45 once RM are nicely settled in. Open your eyes guys!
    Eyes wide open here pal. I'm managing the BSF process for the school at the moment, and will be the Senior link between the MSP/Borough/LEP and the school after Interim Services, as well as the other non IT work. I CHOSE to stay with the school, in discussion with my Headteacher. I could still CHOOSE to be TUPE'd, albeit only for the next couple of weeks. I'm employed BY THE SCHOOL, not by the council. We're Voluntary Aided, I'm employed by the Governors, as with all other Voluntary Aided schools.

    I expect to be an average user of IT, not an Admin or the such. The reasons the school are keeping me are NON IT, therefore nothing to do with Northgate (not RM. Where did you get that from?). A MSP has nothing to do with Theatre stuff, Music or any of the other stuff I currently do. They won't "centralise" those things, will they? Because it's not their job. I know this as I was involved in writing the Output Specification for our school/borough, and was on a panel to whittle down the bidders, including evaluating some of the different bids.

    Don't state as fact things you obviously don't (and can't) know about. Only the school and myself can know my future and situation. You can't pigeon hole and generalise everyone and every situation.
    Last edited by Andycat; 25th November 2009 at 09:07 PM.

  14. Thanks to Andycat from:

    dalsoth (26th November 2009)

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    They will do what is in the contract if the Music is in it they will do it if it is not they won't and they won't let it talk to anything they do do as well. Schools can keep all the things they like outside the contract but what an MSP will say is that it can't compromise their solution as they have performance indicators that say x will happen in y time so if you plug z into our network we can no longer guarantee that.

    As for how they will save money on the contract. They will TUPE staff at one payscale wait for them to get board or find a better job and employ a new member of staff at a lower payscale and hence save themselves money. None of the money (for the MSP) is made on stuff it is all made on CPD and cutting wages.

  16. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face-Man View Post
    They will do what is in the contract if the Music is in it they will do it if it is not they won't and they won't let it talk to anything they do do as well.
    In my case it's ACTUAL Music, not IT and music. as in Recording it, playing it and conducting it! Sorry if there's confusion.

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