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BSF Thread, BSF dates - are you prepared? in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Enclosed the following pdf that details the proposed start dates for BSF nationally: Wave start dates are roughly: Wave 4 ...
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    BSF dates - are you prepared?

    Enclosed the following pdf that details the proposed start dates for BSF nationally: Wave start dates are roughly: Wave 4 January 2007, Wave 5 September 2007 Wave 6 Early 2008 etc....

    Despite a FOI search at the LEA the only info I have found is that the LEA has not decided to outsource us. yet.

    The procedure seems to be that the 'default' is to outsource as much as possible to external companies using the PFS procurement framework. The LEA is able to use their own procurement framework (and presumably not outsource?) provided they can demonstrate value for money against the PfS procurement framework.

    Has any ICT departments been through BSF not been outsourced ?
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    From your understanding of BSF do you think every school is going to be dragged through this process?

    I'm based in Lancashire and my understanding is that the Pendle & Burnley areas were going through the BSF, but I was getting the impression that the money was running out and the rest of Lancashire may be getting left alone for quite a while. The school I work for was told that we were unlikly to get a new school and we would have to make do renovating the buildings as best we could. So we applied for a Tech block which was approved costing 2 million.

    Seems daft to me that they are willing to spend millions on schools then pull them down 5 years later!

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    john's Avatar
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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    If I am reading it right, the local area (if the local LEA schools are affect much) will be in the very last batch to be done (group E)

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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    Interesting document - thanks! Any ideas what will happen to schools who are run by an LEA under a unitary authority - e.g. Portsmouth?

    Duh! I must learn to read - we're in Wave E, so hopefully safe for a few years yet.

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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    From your understanding of BSF do you think every school is going to be dragged through this process?
    The governments plan is that every school will be rebuilt within 25 yrs, but its up to the LEA to target the schools that are most in need. wave 10 is 2012 or 2014 IIRC. The LEA will look at the feasibility and affordability for each school. There are a lot of prerequisites that schools must adhere to eg provide adult learning,extended schools programme and actually be in need of regeneration. The process is quite complicated and the LEA will do a lot of consultaion. Some consultaion will be pubilc and some not. You can obtain more information from your LEA - freedom of information search, etc.


    If I am reading it right, the local area (if the local LEA schools are affect much) will be in the very last batch to be done (group E)
    yep

    Interesting document - thanks! Any ideas what will happen to schools who are run by an LEA under a unitary authority
    Academy schools (who have already undergone PFI) are exempt. It's up to the LEA to decide how it affects individual schools. - read the partnership for schools documentation for your area (available from your LEA, by google/Freedom of Information Act/Unison or otherwise). Partnership for schools is the vehicle for delivering BSF.

    Your LEA needs to be contacted by ICT techs for the purpose of consultaion, otherwise it is likely that the LEA's only consultation will be with companies who have a vested intered in outsoursing

    Has any ICT departments been through BSF not been outsourced ?

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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    wave 4-6 here. scheduled for a rebuild in about 3/4 years time. still trying to get information from the council/lea about their plans for us by asking nicely, if that fails then it's FoI. Our SMT don't want to loose us because I think for the most part they appreciate the fact that we're on site and can sort out a variety of stuff there and then.

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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    talk to your head teacher or members of SLT, it is likely they will have a contact within the school, like we do.

    Intresting for us they want us to take outa substantial mortage to buy back the school over a period of 25 years, head teacher not in agreement with this so its been posponed another 6months?

    just another angle and experience for epople to know whats going on in other parts of the country

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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    What you mean instead of having to wait for the outsource company to install server side software in a queue a mile long?

    Our LEA has say 60 schools (Primary and Secondary) say half want several specific software packages installed on the central system what sort of time frame are we talking here? If the outsourced company supports several LEAs the turnaround for this support calls will be ludicrous. It seems strange that outsourcing all but the basics i.e. desktops and laptop hardware would 1). Prove profitable. 2). Be manageable. even by big companies?


    Wes

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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    As I understand it Wave 1 schools in Newcastle are being outsourced to an LA/DELL partnership.

    Not cut & dried yet, but it is looking increasingly likely that Wave 1 schools in Sunderland will be outsourced, probably to private company as part of LEP. It is believed that the LA inhouse team will not bid.

    Again, not cut & dried yet but Wave 3 schools in Co. Durham almost certainly will be outsourced, LA inhouse team will be bidding for the business.

    Partnership for Schools expects all LAs to outsource their school ICT provision as part of BSF, they will maintain that the status quo is not up for discussion; it certainly was not in any of the three LAs mentioned above.

    If your school bravely elects to opt out of the BSF ICT managed service it will not automatically get any BSF ICT funding & will have to negotiate direct with DfES for funds. Not for the faint hearted, as schools will have to put together a significant, detailed bid with no guarantee of success.

    Partnership for Schools also expect relatively few LA bids will succeed in isolation. They really are pushing very hard for private company involvement in the managed service. Companies in the frame are RM, Capita to name a couple.

    I believe very few schools (if any) in the three LAs mentioned above are enthusiastic about the managed service, however they appear to have little choice but to accept what Partnership for Schools is proposing.

    As for consultation.... quite frankly that is the biggest joke ever. I heard a story about a Partnership for Schools consultant 'presenting' their version of the BSF ICT managed service to a group of HTs. The HT put forward their objections to the managed service, to which the consultant replied, "That's funny; you are the 6-7th set of HT that have reacted in the same way........" The suggestion from the audience that they might just have got it wrong fell on deaf ears.

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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    Quote Originally Posted by wesleyw
    It seems strange that outsourcing all but the basics i.e. desktops and laptop hardware would 1). Prove profitable. 2). Be manageable. even by big companies?


    Wes
    There does not appear to be a published business case that supports outsourcing of ICT in schools as part of BSF.

    The figures I saw suggested schools would receive a one-off amount of £1450 per student to cover all aspects of ICT, including CCTV, telephony, whiteboards, access control systems as well as networking kit, servers, workstations, notebooks, PDAs etc. In return, schools will sign up for a minimum of 5 years managed service at a rate of between £60-£120 per student per year. No extra funding through the school budget has been promised to support this outlay. At the lower end of the funding, replacement of obsolete equipment will not be included in the service provided, at the higher end some will be included, although as always the devil is in the detail.

    Schools will be able to pick & choose a suitable (ie affordable) level of managed service to include all of those little things they take for granted today, such as the a teacher dropping off a CD at 3:45pm and asking for it to automagically appear on the network for 9am the next day.

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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    So really if the school says no they don't get by default ICT BSF funding? I would say this is a concern for many school but seeing as 3 - 5 years down the line the hardware needs to be replaced and there doesn't look to be any additional funding for this and I know of an Academy that spent 3 million in IT projects i.e. Desktops, Laptops, Wireless, CCTV et cetera but sadly now its come round to replacing much of this hardware they don't have the funding available to replace it so I believe they will be trying to do it in parts like everyone else would with a "normal" school. So BSF is really a one time here you go sort out your new school and later you'll have nightmares about the replacement costs?

    So what I'm trying to get at is does it really matter if you opt out of the ICT funding side in the long term? Make sure that in the last year of the schools existance you budget for some hardware replacements and just go ahead and move all your IT equipment into the new building?

    In relation to Air Conditioning what funding pot would this be out of? Or will this be a main theme throughout all schools to have the entire building air conditioned?



    Wes

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    Irazmus's Avatar
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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    We're in wave 13-15 so it's a fair way off for us yet. We do however already have a good idea of the council/LA's plans, they're trying to close all middle schools and move to a 2 tier system. So for us BSF may mean closure >_<

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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    Speaking from the point of view of a small business providing more than just support to a few primary schools I'd say there's some interesting times ahead as there is definitely a push from the schools I've talked to, to walk away from centralised BIG company support schemes.

    They're very wary of any attempt to force them to use a company that is overstretched, arrogant and frankly more interested in their cost margins than the schools needs so I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to opt out.

    It'll be interesting to see how things pan out though as I've no idea where the current LEA sit with things or how much arm twisting they'll try to do.

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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    Quote Originally Posted by wesleyw
    So BSF is really a one time here you go sort out your new school and later you'll have nightmares about the replacement costs?

    So what I'm trying to get at is does it really matter if you opt out of the ICT funding side in the long term? Make sure that in the last year of the schools existance you budget for some hardware replacements and just go ahead and move all your IT equipment into the new building?

    In relation to Air Conditioning what funding pot would this be out of? Or will this be a main theme throughout all schools to have the entire building air conditioned?



    Wes
    BSF funding is strictly 1-time, along the lines of here's some money, but WE (DfES, P4S), not you will decide how it will be spent. The school will be sized (& funded) using a formula-driven calculation based upon the number of students on roll at the time it is due to be occupied, not now. This will dictate the physical footprint of the building. Office space, staffrooms, meeting rooms etc all eat into the teaching space in a BSF school.

    Opting out of the BSF ICT funding may be one way out of the managed service. Perhaps becoming a Trust or Foundation school would be another. I think each school needs to 'do the sums' and compare their current costs against a managed service but be aware that the BSF ICT funding covers an awful lot of equipment, not just computing.
    The sting in the managed service will come when the equipment is out of warranty, needing replacement/repair and you get into discussion with the service provider about what constitutes wear & tear, accidental damage, vandalism etc. Some PFI schools are finding out the hard way now.

    As far as A/C is concerned, in all the meetings I have attended with BSF architects & planners, they are very reluctant to include any significant use of A/C or any form of mechanical cooling especially at a whole-school level for environmental and economic grounds.
    I would imagine server rooms & dedicated ICT suites would get priority but the rest of the school will have to rely upon natural air circulation. I am not sure if the A/C costs would come out of ICT funding or not.

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    wesleyw's Avatar
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    Re: BSF dates - are you prepared?

    Well our school is quite smalle <700 pupils even though we have a 6th form! So we'll probably be looking more at 3 classrooms with A/C and a couple of comms rooms and 1 server room however there has been talk of merging the site with another school this will not affect teachers or pupils because the schools will remain seperate in the short term even though they are both on the same site. The admin staff however may be different we might at least be combining the IT support team here (Which I would like! ) Especially seeing as myself and the other NM would need to interview for the post how I'd love that job lol IT DIrector or something? )

    Wes

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