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BSF Thread, The ICT Managed Service in BSF - Video in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by Sylv3r What is it going on about? When is it going to mention the benefits of BSF ...
  1. #16
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylv3r View Post
    What is it going on about? When is it going to mention the benefits of BSF to existing ICT in schools?

    Its just talking about things that most schools have in place already with buzz words.
    er, referring to 'existing IT in schools'.....that would be a bit like referring to the 'existing asbestos'.......in other words, rip it out, get shot and start anew.

    emphasis on new, don't forget this is a 'new labour' brainchild. Well, atleast i think it is. Although you do have a point if parts of bsf end being scaled back, then they might have to be a bit more creative with existing systems and existing kit.

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    All that money spent to duplicate what we already have . Oh hang on .... we have an average 3 min call to fix time they have 30 mins.

    One more thing - loads of dosh spent but they still didn't install short throw projectors...tut tut

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    What a shame you can't discuss it effectively

    It really saddens me to see so much poor argument from the Edugeek community. Its as if you think that everyone on the video is lying!

    The fact is that in some, not all, but some BSF schools the BSF programme HAS made a significant difference to the lives of students and staff within the schools.

    Too often I have seen the use of ICT by schools 'controlled' by technicians who have been poorly supported with effective training and who stop innovation because they do not know how to implement it or who innovate in an ad-hoc way that causes them more problems down the line. There are usually many reasons for this - almost always not the fault of the technical staff - but whatever the reasons it has a negative impact on the learning outcomes of students.

    Having actually seen some of these new BSF schools before and after BSF I have been impressed with the way in which the programme has changed the attitudes of young people and staff alike.

    It may be that people on Edugeek are the exception to the vast majority and to that extent I would have liked to have seen some more reasoned argument about the BSF programme, especially about how the managed service model could be improved (BSF is far from perfect).

    Come on Edugeek community - help make BSF better, for students and staff - by developing a more reasoned set of arguments and discussions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by straight_talk View Post
    Come on Edugeek community - help make BSF better, for students and staff - by developing a more reasoned set of arguments and discussions.
    The BSF forum is full of reasoned arguments.

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  6. #20
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    Straighttalk, first post i notice. You are probably that guy in the video talking rubbish.

    This video only insults all ICT staff who currently work in education. There may be some technicial staff out there doing a poor job but then again there are bound to be plenty of BSF schools that do a poor job. The reasons behind it will be quite diverse. The issue won't disappear as soon as BSF takes control.

    How many of us have ever had a poor service or product from a private company? Surely not???

    Picking on poorly trained and supported technicians as an example is poor argument on your part. If you can promise a better service in ALL schools than what is currently provided then fair enough. I doubt that will be the case.

    If people want to vent on here because they see a video promising everything they already provide. All the while portraying it as something new, fresh, exciting and ultimately much better than the shabby service they used to have, then they have every right.

    The truly sad part is that most teachers and management at my school would look at this video and think wow that's fantastic. You can be superman but just don't expect thanks for it. They will drop you in a heartbeat because ultimately you are just that annoying support guy that tells them they can't install limewire on the school computers.

    Blabla off to bed.

  7. #21

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    Its like those people in the video dont actualy understand what its like now, and just think that if they have all this money and managed services there going to get a better service.

    Is this all going to help teachers, learn how to turn monitors, turn there computer on.. know how to add a printer etc.. is this going to stop kids wrecking the hardware etc as tbh most of the problems people have with computers in schools from what i see is down to someone actually breaking it or not doing something so simple.

    I suppose if we get loads of money, then yh there are plenty of things we can buy to improve our systems and networks but i dont think were ever going to solve the day - day damage which is most of the work we do.

    Tbh, i havent read up on this as much as some of you, and its still blury to me so if i am talking nonsense then fair enough but thats what it sounds like.

    --- lets try and keep this a nice thread @ straight talk... i hope you have some answers for the questions your going to get of people when everyone reads that tomorrow. first post and coming accross like that not a very good start. sorry

    G'night
    Last edited by EduTech; 11th February 2009 at 12:06 AM.

  8. #22

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    ICT Managed Services

    My post was not supposed to be too negative but I wanted to instigate a more positive, constructive discussion on a forum of professionals whose voices should be heard.

    I think one of the key points of the video is that a least some of the people do actually know what is happening now. I have bee to at least one of the schools in question, where the managed service took over a year ago, and BSF has changed the climate within the school as far as ICT is concerned and as helped change the climate in te school overall. In this school the school and the managed service provider worked very much together (with some strong words said by each) to get things right and it has worked!.

    It is wrong for so many people on this forum to dismiss the video so easily as it does describe what IS happening. I know because I have talked to staff and students.

    So clearly BSF can work. Where it has not I suspect it is because there has not been as much constructive, open dialogue between the various people involved. So, especially for those people working in areas where the contract has not been awarded yet, it would be useful to kick start a debate on how an ICT managed service should work.

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    Why have BSF?

    That video shows that BSF as it now stands is over cooked. In my opinion that school could have improved its ICT by the use of a decent consultant and at a fraction of the cost both in the short and long term.

    BSF for IT is a good thing however, it is being used by large companies as a money making machine for there own ends by preying on schools that have little or no knowledge of existing technologies so anything presented to them is wonderful, shiny and will do everything for them. Had those schools under the guidance of a consultant been shown other schools with all the wonderful tools and what could be achieved with IT then I feel the result would be the same but at a fraction of the cost.

  10. 4 Thanks to alan-d:

    farmerste (11th February 2009), jumpinjamez (23rd February 2009), Messa (11th February 2009), Trojan (11th February 2009)

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    BSF can work but can also fail. This video makes it seem as though the school was living in the dark ages before they came along. Perhaps it was, but it should not be put up as an example of what all schools are like pre BSF.

    Some schools have a fantastic ICT team and will lose out from BSF.

    Propaganda. The reality for many technicians and network managers will also be a loss of employment in one way or another, sooner or later.

    We only see a guy enthuse about how his ICT team are flourishing and moving up the ladder in their new company.....

    Let's hope when the contract renewal comes up that they win the bid again or those technicians that do get employed will have a shock when they no longer have a school (if they aren't carted off the side elsewhere in the meantime).

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan-d View Post
    Why have BSF?

    That video shows that BSF as it now stands is over cooked. In my opinion that school could have improved its ICT by the use of a decent consultant and at a fraction of the cost both in the short and long term.

    BSF for IT is a good thing however, it is being used by large companies as a money making machine for there own ends by preying on schools that have little or no knowledge of existing technologies so anything presented to them is wonderful, shiny and will do everything for them. Had those schools under the guidance of a consultant been shown other schools with all the wonderful tools and what could be achieved with IT then I feel the result would be the same but at a fraction of the cost.
    Tooooo True!!!

  13. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by straight_talk View Post
    Where it has not I suspect it is because there has not been as much constructive, open dialogue between the various people involved. So, especially for those people working in areas where the contract has not been awarded yet, it would be useful to kick start a debate on how an ICT managed service should work.
    ICT can work without BSF if the people involved are constructive, have open dialogue and the BSF kind of monetary backing.

    'awarded' you make it sound like a freebee give away... i'm not sure you're here to have an open debate on if the money was used without BSF, or things schools should be doing to promote good ICT, only to promote debate on HOW ICT should work with a managed BSF service.

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    I think straight talk has hit a nerve and some of what he says is true. For a large number of schools have not invested in ICT (hardware to technicians) Many SLT's have not understood ICT. This has led to unreliable systems and a make do approach. This is evident from a lot of what people say in these forums.

    A major issue, is for schools that have invested in ICT staff and equipment. That have student access from home, that have online registration, where parents can have access etc. Involve ICT staff, in more than the support service, get the staff to be part of the learning process. What is going to happen to those schools. What about the innovation!!

    A managed service will get many schools up to a certain level but will it allow transformation of learning through ICT.

    My biggest concern is new schools, new equipment, new services but the same teaching staff and management. Again where is the change management for these schools.

    The test will come when the government says you have had all this money lets see the results?

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    The essential arithmetic for me is that if you were to take the total amount of money to be spent on ICT through BSF and divide it by the number of schools involved and instead of the current arrangement, simply giving that money directly to schools with it ring-fenced for ICT and some Key Performance Indicators then ICT provision / support will improve anyway.

    Proponents of BSF forget (or deliberatly ignore) the fact that comparing "before" and "after" is not a flat playing field when you consider the differing levels of funding in place.

    If the BSF movement is genuine and not, as many suspect, a gravy train for local authorities and big-business then why are Headteachers not given the option of receiving the ICT funding directly to the school and spending it as they see fit within guidelines? Since this does not appear to be permitted within the parameters of BSF then either those in charge of BSF have no faith in the ability of Headteachers, existing IT support staff and the wider industry or they have something to hide - namely the worry that such a model may work better than the big-money lock-in arrangements which currently characterise BSF.

    With a 'local freedom of choice' approach, schools with existing innovation can accelerate it, and those without receive the ring-fenced funding and guidelines they need to get up to standard, and they could still buy in to a managed service if that's what's best for that school.
    Last edited by u8dmtm; 11th February 2009 at 09:13 AM.

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    I don't tend to get involved with posts concerning BSF but I do have to say that video was a pile of bollocks
    Last edited by KarlGoddard; 12th February 2009 at 06:42 PM.

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  19. #30
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    I think the idea of a '5th utility service' [quote from the blurb] is quite clearly where things are heading, not merely with ICT in schools but IT support across much of the public sector.

    Just as a large bank would sign contracts with building services companies to look the building fabric of they're high street branches, and invariably big building services companies with the support infrastructure, skills, experience and staffin in place tend to win these contracts.

    As it is in individual school cases, they will often sign contracts with an ICT supplier to provide a comprehensive service, this often stops short of a full managed service but a lot of the time it makes sense to bring in an ICT service provider to do the planning, project work and provide the post sales support. Schools ICT staff cannot be specialist in every area, but i personally believe there's an important distinction between professional and specialist.

    IT schools staff are professionals, some of them have certain specialisms. But an ICT service provider can normally count on a number of accreditations in-house. I'm not merely talking MCSE or CCNA here, i'm talking about partnership status with a vendor......this takes a lot of the risk out of a project, because the service provider can count on experience through extensive project work.

    In such cases you need people in schools who do they're research, and have a good understanding of products and technologies that will stop short of specialist knowledge but can at the very least enable them to see beyond the marketing blurb. Good providers will be honest with a client and tailor solutions appropriately, but that's no excuse for a customer to not wise up.

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