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BSF Thread, TUPE - The RM Way in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by Netware Yes i've seen the RM jobs in Harringay which RM, are posting for paying up to ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netware View Post
    Yes i've seen the RM jobs in Harringay which RM, are posting for paying up to 24K, not too bad i guess.......
    Yes thay asked the Old Network Managers to apply for "new" jobs" advertised... problem is that there is not enough jobs for all of them..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit View Post
    Yes thay asked the Old Network Managers to apply for "new" jobs" advertised... problem is that there is not enough jobs for all of them..
    Then this isn't TUPE, they can't claim they are using the TUPE process if they are expecting people to reapply for jobs by competitive interview.

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    Yes I agree there that is not the TUPE process RM are claiming to be using. I thought your contract was honoured Via RM over to them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Netware View Post
    Yes I agree there that is not the TUPE process RM are claiming to be using. I thought your contract was honoured Via RM over to them?
    Not always only the staff they want to keep.. the rest have to fight it out


    Job Losses in Hackney BSF and RM?

    Blogging Schools for the Future: Tense Times.

    11 comments:
    Roger said...
    So what is happening to your Network Manger....

    Will he still manage the Network or will he TUPED as a Technician ?

    09 March 2008 12:18
    Jill C said...
    Hi Roger

    The answer is kind of neither.


    Follow this link for more detail

    Job Losses in Hackney BSF and RM?

    I'm happy to give you more detail if you need it.

    12 March 2008 01:02
    Roger said...
    I would like more detail if possible please... will your Network Manager be taken on/TUPED as a Network Manager at his same rate of pay ?

    12 March 2008 13:25
    Jill C said...
    Ok. Just to clarify. There is no school-based network manager post. He will be given access to RM's vacancy bulletin and RM are confident that he will be redeployed. This is not the same as TUPE as he will then move on to RMs conditions of employment. It is also voluntary, the implication being that he will find something he is happy to go to on at least the same pay level. If he doesn't find a suitable job for redeployment, then RM have guaranteed he will retain his salary/terms & conditions (i.e. be TUPE'd), including being sited at the school, until he does find something, and that they will foot the bill. The difficulty here is that he will not be able to keep the same role at he has at present as he will not be managing an on-site network. There are only 1.5 posts at our school long term and we currently have 3 staff, although there will be a slightly higher level of staffing built in at first.

    12 March 2008 14:22
    Roger said...
    Thats very sad... Thanks for the info.....

    13 March 2008 15:43
    Roger said...
    So all the School Network Managers in Hackney are going to be looking for a few good jobs...

    And if they can't find them they are TUPED until they get retrenched under the Economic opt out clause in the TUPE regulations...

    I see only 1 job on RM careers site for a "Technical Manager" in Lambeth looking after 10 schools and technicians.. so all Hackney Mangers I assume will be applying for this or Hackneys "Technical Manager" role..?

    So bottom line is that there are 10 Network Managers applying for 1 job and this will be replicated through all the RM/BSF waves as more and more Managers are relieved of their Networks and have to apply for the 1 role to oversee the BSF/RM Network in 10schools.

    Is he happy with this ? didn't it stress him at the BSF meetings that his job and future was being sold down the river ?

    13 March 2008 15:59
    Jill C said...
    I forgot to add that there will be some senior ICT posts in Hackney, although still not enough for all the network managers. These posts are open to the whole RM workforce, and not ring-fenced to Hackney employees.

    I think it's fair to say the ICT strand of BSF has been the most painful for us. I do know other schools are desperate for what it will bring, but we're pretty proud of our ICT provision. I can't speak for the Network Manager. He's aware of your comments and may respond to you himself. He has been very, very involved from the outset of the project, and fully aware of what it all would mean for him. I think his involvement has helped us and the other schools to get a far better offer than the one that was originally on the table.

    I'd be interested to know your position.

    15 March 2008 04:47
    Roger said...
    I am an ICT Manager....

    Your last paragraph puts it in a nutshell..

    in your last paragraph you say that ICT Manager got you a "far better offer than what was on the table"... That's him doing his job protecting his school from profit making companies taking advantage of non ICT People.. I mean he did a better job than the LA...

    Our job is to look after our schools, to advise the SLT and to protect the school from being ripped off or sold incorrect/sub standard ICT kit... We work for the school and we protect the school..

    But now who's going to protect you as you now have no ICT professional that is employed by the school?.... so you'll not have someone getting you a "far better offer" but someone that want to sell you something..

    You are at the mercy of the company who's first and foremost duty is to make a profit for it's shareholders..

    15 March 2008 06:43
    Anonymous said...
    I find this issue very interesting. Due to my circumstances I am forced to post my reply/question anonymously. Here is my first query in response to this article: I would like to ask explicitly when BSF came in for you did the successful bidder provide a network which replaced what you already had in place, or did they give you a standard network “imposed” on you from above? If you had developed your network adding functionality over and above a “standard” network will all of this work be lost under BSF? I ask because I now feel that our network is long in the tooth and I think that BSF will arrive here within a number of years. My feeling is that we should build value into our network so that when BSF takes over that value is reflected in the new domain. Is this rational thinking or is this the thinking of a “deluded fool”?

    More posts to follow…

    18 March 2008 08:09
    Jill C said...
    Hi there. I'll do my best to answer accurately, but remember I'm not a network manager. We have an excellent existing network, which we need as a media arts college. I believe some of it still has a number of years under warranty. Without BSF there are a few switches that are on the way out, but otherwise we could keep it going for a while yet. The problem is that under BSF the vast majority of rooms in out school are going to be pulled apart, and the cabling with it, so we will be using BSF funds to replace perfectly good stuff. I believe most of our network kit will be replaced entirely, although some of the hardware will be taken on by RM as legacy. I think that it is highly likely that this would happen anywhere, no matter how good the kit or who the ICT providers are. The new network isn't in yet, but the very choosy Network Manager seems to approve of what will be going in. I'm pretty sure we won't be losing functionality. I believe the switches won't be as good as our current ones, but I'm straying into dangerous territory in terms of my lack of expertise here! I don't want to give you advice, but our approach over the past couple of years has been to carry on as if BSF is not happening. We would almost certainly have done what you are planning. Look out for some pretty good switches on e-bay in the next few months.

    19 March 2008 13:56
    Roger said...
    This is shocking... RM are replacing perfectly good kit just to make more money

    4 comments:
    Anonymous said...
    Where is your Network Manger Now and is he still with you ? and how much longer does he have at your school ?

    12 June 2008 00:56
    Roger said...
    I see that in your previous blog your Network Manager that is facing retrenchment is helping the Managed Service Company and making their lives easier...

    Isn't this a bit like a Pig eating Bacon ?

    cause RM are still going to take him out of your school...

    12 June 2008 01:05
    Jill C said...
    Our Network Manager is indeed still with us and will remain with us until we buy into the ICT services or he decides to head off elsewhere completely outside of Hackney BSF. If he sticks it out here the RM vacancy list will be made available to him and the others in the ICT team some time around the beginning of this year or early next. The exact timing hasn't been decided.

    I'm always very conscious of not wanting to speak for him when responding to comments. I think it's fair to say that he's more than aware of the situation he's in, though!

    19 June 2008 14:52
    Roger said...
    Shame he sounds like a fantastic bloke... loyal and an asset to the school..

    20 June 2008 00:49

  5. Thanks to Grommit from:

    CyberNerd (19th August 2008)

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    As much as I find it abhorrent what is happening with regards to staffing in Hackney (having spoken with Jill and her NM close to the start of the process and fully understanding the NM's professional manner with how he is dealing with all of the issues, rallying around for his school and behalf of others whilst chains of communication break down between the schools, the LA and the MSP) I have to point out that this would have been fairly evident in the bidding process about how they were going to deliver the services, staff the support team and plan for moving people out or sidewards.

    Not being able to see the other bids involved makes me wonder ... if RM was the best of the bunch in this case, what were the other bids like?

    Also, what has been the union response to this? Most unions are happy to here the TUPE is being adhered to as it still means their members have jobs at the end of it at the same salary and general conditions ... surely this is one of the areas that people pay subs for.

    As for as most LAs and Heads are concerned, the ICT section is a small part ... and a few staff being moved about or moved on is regarded as part of the process.

    When schools get closed and reopened as Academies, or merged due to falling standards or numbers, then the schools and LAs try to weed out the dross. TUPE stops this to some degree (for understandable reasons) but has Hackney or any other LA in this (or nearby) waves of BSF been part of an audit *prior* to BSF in staff skill levels and performance management? (not to be confused with job evaluation!)

  7. Thanks to GrumbleDook from:

    Grommit (19th August 2008)

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