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BSF Thread, School set to refuse £14m in BSF cash in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by GrumbleDook BSF is a politics thing on so many levels ... the people that get the good ...
  1. #31
    Diello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    BSF is a politics thing on so many levels ... the people that get the good results get listened to, those who are 'satisfactory' will not be listened to as the leadership at those schools are not in the loop enough to make changes.
    BSF is about politics on all levels. Whether BSF from a Buildings, or from an ICT perspective - I've yet to hear of people going into schools, talking to all the stakeholders - SLT, teachers, other staff, students, and finding out exactly what is needed to improve that school. I'd say the majority of teachers still don't know what BSF is, it's still fairly behind-the-scenes.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    I keep saying to people to get examples about how much difference they make to T&L and that includes achievement / attainment. If you show that your IT expertise has helped in the difference between teh school getting good and outstanding, or satisfactory and good ... then you stand a chance of arguing your case. I've said before that you have to show accountability ... that you have to be part of the strategic vision of the school.
    Again a fair point - but has P4S done the same (which obviously they can't since they have nothing implemented that has been in place long enough to prove a positive outcome)? Since BSF isn't specific to each school, and is a one-size-fits-all approach, it fits less into being "part of the strategic vision of the school". IT is part (where I work anyway) of the SDP and 5-year plan, it factors in the needs and wants (valid wants!) of each department - to have that difference in achievement/attainment, to help the school go from good to outstanding. Our IT expertise isn't discrete, it's school-wide, shown in the success of our results by each department.

    BSF where the school has practically no say over what it gets is not going to fit into the school SDP, 5-year plan, or individual department needs to improve T&L, and thus is not going to improve those areas for each individual school.

    Problem is, there is no proof, since BSF hasn't happened yet - however, surely this is just a case of common sense? You can't improve things within the school, if you completely blank out asking the school what needs improving.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    no-one has set up a website that is anti-bsf ... no-one has called the unions to task for not getting involved ... and people expect others to do their running around for them.
    Indeed - in a way it's propriety vs. open source. The vocal minority vs. the silent majority. BSF has Gov and private business support, millions in funding for publicity, and advertising, which they can make say whatever the heck they like. Those of us actually in the schools, who actually know what goes on, what's needed, are distributed across the country, and have no huge cash reserves, no support of companies or the Gov. Getting that organised and giving it a loud voice is practically impossible as those how can shout the loudest...

    Still, when has anything in this country actually been done for the good of it?
    Last edited by Diello; 20th July 2008 at 04:03 PM.

  2. #32
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diello View Post
    BSF is about politics on all levels. Whether BSF from a Buildings, or from an ICT perspective - I've yet to hear of people going into



    . BSF has Gov and private business support, millions in funding for publicity,
    and advertising, which they can make say whatever the heck they like. Those of us actually in the schools, who actually know what goes on, what's needed, are distributed across the country, and have no huge cash reserves, no support of companies or the Gov. Getting that organised and giving it a loud voice is practically impossible as those how can shout the loudest...

    Still, when has anything in this country actually need done for the good of it?
    It just sounds like many an outsourcing contract. The business analysts and suits who are resoinsible for thrashing out the service contracts don't have an appreciation or understanding for the day-to-day. Plus the govt. and local govt. bods have this affinity with private sector involvement, not realising that waste, ineffiicency are not exclusive to the public sector, as many a tabloid would have the population believe. So those who have responsibility for managing the IT budget for schools are happier to hand over money and to encourage private investment in IT service delivery who promise efficiecny and cost savings that are often spureous,

    The consortiums interest in shareholders and directors means that they can put together a proposal that talks a good game about service and delivery, but the reality is for those delivering the IT service is that the most cost effective and efficient way of deliveing a service is as near as a one size fits all....that means standardising on the products, processes, and contact center. It doesn't matter that certain processes under a manged BSF agreement don't represent good value for money or seem nonsensical due to the red tape....but that's not the concern of the suits. They've been told by some guys with a powerpoint presentation that it works.

    There are worse examples of outsourced IT contracts, but they very rarely deliver in the ways imagined.

    The good news for the school in this case is that the IT dept. can get on with doing what there doing without interference from an MSP and without the uncertainty of their future roles that comes with being TUPed....there aren't many school leader who hold their support staff in such high regard and are willing and able to do something that puts the morale of staff and quality of IT pupils to ahead of the financial incentives. I think by going it alone the autonomy brings far greater benefits, innovation and i no doubt will deliver on best value over a 10 or 15 year period.
    Last edited by torledo; 20th July 2008 at 03:59 PM.

  3. #33

    beeswax's Avatar
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    domain names

    has anyone else tried registering a domain name with bsf in the title? pretty difficult.

  4. #34

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    A couple of legits and a few squatters.

    The best chance is not to use something that may be deemed 'official' but to go for an 'anti' website, or better still .. a 'truths' website.

    bsftruths.org.uk is available and would cover a number of areas ... it could be sections that deal with IT Managed Services, building services, T&L / Teachers, Leaders & Management ... there is so much there that can be done with it and lots of information without relying on FUD too.

    Whoever does it would have to spend considerable time talking with lots of unions, schools in pathfinder waves, deal with anonymous contributions from those already TUPEd over, be willing to take on the Govt agencies and deal with their spin as well as their substance ... and then be able to come back with better solutions (with sufficient evidence, or at least evidence to challenge what is being put forward by Becta, P4S, DCFS, Academies, etc).

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    BSFMadeEasy.com and .co.uk are available as is WhatisthisBSf.com

  6. #36

    SpuffMonkey's Avatar
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    Anyone else see this one

    35bn revamp will produce generation of mediocre schools | Politics | The Guardian

    About how rubbish BSF rebuilds are.

  7. #37

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    This has been said from the Pathfinder stage ...

    The problem with building designs is that architects and builders get involved ... and everything has to look swish.

    Then again, speaking with a director at one builder firm who refuses to touch any PFI work at all ... he reckons that the problem is not having enough working models. If you want a house or office built, then there are lots of good examples out there without having to be inventive ... it seems like lots of new public buildings need to be full of flair (or is it flare?)!!!!

    A self-proclaimed cynic said to me that when you are looking at architects ... you have some that say that "education is at the heart of what we are as a society and that is why I dedicate myself to it ..." and then say the same about local Govt building, football stadia, etc ...

    I know that the attitude of some schools involved in the 'poor' design areas is one of 'we are getting something better than that asbestos ridden flea-pit so we won't moan too loud' ...

  8. #38
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    This has been said from the Pathfinder stage ...

    The problem with building designs is that architects and builders get involved ... and everything has to look swish.

    Then again, speaking with a director at one builder firm who refuses to touch any PFI work at all ... he reckons that the problem is not having enough working models. If you want a house or office built, then there are lots of good examples out there without having to be inventive ... it seems like lots of new public buildings need to be full of flair (or is it flare?)!!!!

    A self-proclaimed cynic said to me that when you are looking at architects ... you have some that say that "education is at the heart of what we are as a society and that is why I dedicate myself to it ..." and then say the same about local Govt building, football stadia, etc ...

    I know that the attitude of some schools involved in the 'poor' design areas is one of 'we are getting something better than that asbestos ridden flea-pit so we won't moan too loud' ...
    A lot of local govt. redevelopment has tried to be about making a statement, create something iconic and all that jazz....unfortunately - and i've mentioned this before - modern designers/architects haven't the foggiest when it comes to new builds. When it's about redeveloping an old water mill or victorian factory for plush city centre living they manage to do a half decent job becuase they don't have to think of something from scratch. And these days doing a build from scratch demands putting flair into something hence the trend is to put a lot of glass in and add the odd weird angle....i'm not against the use of glass to create swish, distinctive looking buildings. But it's become so common than it's no longer adds any uniqueness.

    Much of what's being done by councils are the future eyesores, the buildings that future generations will want pulling down. Much like the brutalist architecture of the 70's and expansion of flyovers and ringroads ruined many a city centre, when you get the design of a building that is intented to be a focal point wrong it inflicts itself on the local environment and twenty, thirty years hence it becomes detested because the design doesn't age well. That's the importance of the design of the school building, as much as schools are designed to be funcitonal and fulfill a purpose it has an impact on the local environment and can in some instances become a focal point of an area. Balls that up and a disservice is being done to local residents.

  9. #39
    Butuz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpuffMonkey View Post
    Anyone else see this one

    35bn revamp will produce generation of mediocre schools | Politics | The Guardian

    About how rubbish BSF rebuilds are.
    Wow thats a pretty shocking article! Thank god articles like this are now coming out!!!

    Butuz

  10. #40

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    With this amount of money we can free schools from the burden of procuring and managing complex ICT systems.
    Yes, but most schools have highly trained, skilled and motivated IT support departments already who can achieve all of this for a fraction of the costs on a per site basis. And I would suggest that most schools will end up with networks a lot less complex than those they currently run!



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