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BSF Thread, Managed Service and BSF in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by bossman Myself and Webman have been told that our Governors have had the initial meeting to allow ...
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    broc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossman View Post
    Myself and Webman have been told that our Governors have had the initial meeting to allow the BSF process to move forward and in his address to the staff I was amazed at the fact no-one from our IT dept had been to any meetings about how managed services would effect all staff within the T&L framework.
    Tha lack of communication & involvement seems par for the course; I think that the BSF consultants and Partnership for Schools in particular are indifferent to the fate of the ICT staff; the LA would rather not think about them as it makes them uncomfortable and I suspect the Head Teachers are more worried about losing their ICT staff prematurely so they tend to keep them in the dark

    Having 'retired' from industry at 50 I now work in a school because I enjoy it, I am fortunate I don't have to rely upon my school salary to keep a roof over my head. If things don't work out with the managed service I can see myself stacking shelves in B&Q alongside bossman in a few years time rather than heading back to industry, even if I could find another job at my age.

    Alternatively my wife & I might run away and become 'old-age' travellers, heading south for the winter in our motorhome

    I share bossmans concerns about the future of his colleagues; I have two technicians who work with me; one of them has great potential as a web/VLE developer and could grow significantly if given the chance; the other is content to spend his time quietly repairing broken kit .... I just hope the managed service can provide them both with roles that give them a future. Needless to say I will do my best to influence the outcome as much as I can.

    Meanwhile I wouldn't blame them if they decided not to stick around & find out.

  2. #17
    Joedetic's Avatar
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    @wes I'd be interested to find out the Walsall plans for BSF. I haven't found much out on it so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
    The way i understand it is if you want the BSF Money for your school you HAVE to have a managed service.

    My head has been a meeting today with other heads, and she is very strong that she does not want a managed service and she wants it to remain in house. She will do everything she can to keep it that way.

    With the school not wanting this, what i do not get is whats stopping us letting the managed service install all this nice new shiney computer equipment then wiping the servers and workstation and putting our own setup on again? My line manager says if thats what it takes that is what they will do.

    This wouldnt be able to happen. Firstly all servers will be off site. secondly you will either be TUPE'd over or kept in another role.

    If you are TUPE'd, would you go against your new employer risking getting sacked?

    If you are placed in another role within the school, then the managed service provider will send a technician into the school. They would then not be willing to let you override their network.

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    I am under the impression that individual schools can opt out of BSF but there has to be a very strong case showing that a managed service would be of no benefit.

    Interestingly does anyone know what is to happen to ICT in PFI schools? Surely there will be no BSF money going to schools re-built under PFI so how can a managed service be implimented there?

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatty_wim View Post
    I am under the impression that individual schools can opt out of BSF but there has to be a very strong case showing that a managed service would be of no benefit.

    Interestingly does anyone know what is to happen to ICT in PFI schools? Surely there will be no BSF money going to schools re-built under PFI so how can a managed service be implimented there?
    To clarify ... BSF is the whole project, most here are purely talking about the ICT Services being part of the managed services contract.

    *No* school would pull out of BSF due to the ICT Services being part of a managed services contract. That would mean no rebuild / refurb of the school and a loss of substantial funding.

    Presently no school has opted out of the ICT services being part of a managed services contract without the option of losing money. It has been looked at and worked on but it has not happened ... yet. Ultimately the decision over whether a school continues to get the funding without the managed services contract is purely up to the LA / LEP, not P4S or the school's governing body. Schools that have banged their drum and said that they are happy to lose the funding have all (as far as I am aware) capitulated in the end. Rightly or wrongly, Senior Leaders and Governors in schools are unwilling to take that risk.

    BSF schools are built under PFI but have additional contracts on them and the funding is slightly different too. Are you asking about schools that have previously been built under PFI, not BSF, and do not have managed service contracts for ICT? If so then as far as I am aware there is not funding for this (as you have said) but the companies bidding for the ICT Services under BSF in the same LA may opt to make the service available to schools / LAs that want it. This is of interest for me and I had planned on getting a formal response later in the year from P4S as there are a number of PFI schools in Northamptonshire that have a high level of IT support from in house teams. I will ask the question and feedback. If anyone already knows how it applies to their LA I would be interested to hear.

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    Sorry, wasnt thinking when I typed the original. Yes meant, I was under impression that schools could opt out of managed service if there was evidence to show there is no benefit to managed service. But as you point out, who would do this as the funding lost would be significant.

    The second point is what I am most interested in. I work in a school built a couple of years ago under the original heading of PFI. Shortly my LA will be rebuilding more schools under the new banner of BSF.

    Currently there are lots of rumours flying round and no facts.

    We had a complete re-build under the scheme, and now have an excellent ICT system in place. From service desk, to workstations, servers, backbone etc.

    The main thing that is being said, mostly by other ICT staff, is that ALL schools will have a managed ICT service at the end, even those that will not see any refurbishment or works under new BSF funding. But I wondered if anyone had come against this already.

    Again should the managed ICT service be offered to all the schools, I assume that the previously built PFI's have no obligation to take up the service either?

    Maybe actually writing and asking the LA is my way forward too. Who is P4S? Please excuse my ignorance if I should know.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    To clarify ... BSF is the whole project, most here are purely talking about the ICT Services being part of the managed services contract.

    *No* school would pull out of BSF due to the ICT Services being part of a managed services contract. That would mean no rebuild / refurb of the school and a loss of substantial funding.

    Presently no school has opted out of the ICT services being part of a managed services contract without the option of losing money. It has been looked at and worked on but it has not happened ... yet. Ultimately the decision over whether a school continues to get the funding without the managed services contract is purely up to the LA / LEP, not P4S or the school's governing body. Schools that have banged their drum and said that they are happy to lose the funding have all (as far as I am aware) capitulated in the end. Rightly or wrongly, Senior Leaders and Governors in schools are unwilling to take that risk.

    BSF schools are built under PFI but have additional contracts on them and the funding is slightly different too. Are you asking about schools that have previously been built under PFI, not BSF, and do not have managed service contracts for ICT? If so then as far as I am aware there is not funding for this (as you have said) but the companies bidding for the ICT Services under BSF in the same LA may opt to make the service available to schools / LAs that want it. This is of interest for me and I had planned on getting a formal response later in the year from P4S as there are a number of PFI schools in Northamptonshire that have a high level of IT support from in house teams. I will ask the question and feedback. If anyone already knows how it applies to their LA I would be interested to hear.

  7. #22

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatty_wim View Post
    Sorry, wasnt thinking when I typed the original. Yes meant, I was under impression that schools could opt out of managed service if there was evidence to show there is no benefit to managed service. But as you point out, who would do this as the funding lost would be significant.
    No worries ... I just wanted to make a few things clear as there are lots of opportunity for things to be misconstrued, especially with all the rumours and chinese whispers you get in each LA, never mind those that occur nationally!

    The second point is what I am most interested in. I work in a school built a couple of years ago under the original heading of PFI. Shortly my LA will be rebuilding more schools under the new banner of BSF.

    Currently there are lots of rumours flying round and no facts.
    All too common. The lack of real facts is the most annoying thing. One of the biggest complaints you will see in threads about BSF is the lack of communication or that it is left too late so schools don't get a chance to get involved. There are other complaints but just read the threads in the BSF section to see what I mean about that[/quote]

    We had a complete re-build under the scheme, and now have an excellent ICT system in place. From service desk, to workstations, servers, backbone etc.

    The main thing that is being said, mostly by other ICT staff, is that ALL schools will have a managed ICT service at the end, even those that will not see any refurbishment or works under new BSF funding. But I wondered if anyone had come against this already.

    Again should the managed ICT service be offered to all the schools, I assume that the previously built PFI's have no obligation to take up the service either?

    Maybe actually writing and asking the LA is my way forward too. Who is P4S? Please excuse my ignorance if I should know.[/QUOTE]

    P4S is Partnership for Schools. Have a look at Partnerships for Schools for more information and read the other thread in the BSF section.

    I have actually stepped out of most BSF conversations at the moment due a change of job ... as far as I am aware the question has not been asked in my LA yet, and I will ask there before then asking P4S. I would suggest you ask your LA. If possible do it in writing, on school letterheaded paper and get the Head to sign it. You are likely to have a better chance of getting an answer then.

  8. #23
    Deaks's Avatar
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    Just a quick note on the comments above about off-site servers and wiping them etc... We're going through the migration to managed service now with Northgate (see the Kent thread) and our servers WILL be on-site, only VLE/MLE will be hosted elsewhere.

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    Forgive my ignorance but what is a managed service? What happens to the technician/network manager? If the technician/NM move over to the managed services contractor, will they do the same work as now? If they don't move, will they be relegated to cleaning projector filters?

  10. #25

    beeswax's Avatar
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    If you willfully refuse to move to the managed service provider you will be deemed to have handed in your notice.

    On a brighter note, has anyone noticed how much P4S looks like P45?

  11. #26
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    From stuff you see on the web this is how US schools managed their IT. The school dept of the conunty seem to run stuff from a data centres. They could be cool jobs but by the look of it all the RM ones are for graduate trainies.

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    Talking

    Has anyone moved over tro magaged service in the Mersyside area yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    *No* school would pull out of BSF due to the ICT Services being part of a managed services contract. That would mean no rebuild / refurb of the school and a loss of substantial funding.

    .

    I was in a meeting with Andy Jackson, whos heading up the BSF for Birmingham. He did say the school could be it's own managed service provider, providing we have the necessary system already in place. He did say there was paper work on the subject. Now im not sure if this means we'd also get the money. I'm yet to see the paper work. Has anyone seen this?

    D

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    BSF

    How do schools go about becoming managed service providers

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    Just a quick check ... do you mean to be a managed service provider just for your school or for other schools too? There is quite a difference.

    If you are just looking at your school it comes under the guise of the Alternative Business Case Proposal which sees the school in question put forward a case of why they can provide the service internally, how it fits into the LAs designs and strategy on BSF, where it shows value for money and what the added benefits are for the school. So far no school has been successful in this and one school has decided to pull out of the managed service side of things completely and has forfeited the ICT investment under BSF as a result. Some schools have recently contested the line that some LAs have taken around schools apparently *having* to accept the MSP and a quick look through the BSF forum will show these ...

    If the school is looking to be an MSP for other schools then that is another matter and I would suggest a conversation with P4S would be more appropriate as you would probably have to form a company, put yourself forward in the bidding process and there will be some financial / legal conditions on all of this. Your LA is the other group you should speak to about this.

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