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BSF Thread, Understanding job threat? in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Hi all, I've been reading through the BSF forums and it seems like most people here know what's going on ...
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    Finding_Scotty's Avatar
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    Understanding job threat?

    Hi all,

    I've been reading through the BSF forums and it seems like most people here know what's going on etc.

    First off, I have no idea what the big picture is in terms of job security (I'm an IT Tech).

    My school has an RM contract signed etc and the building works have started in terms of BSF - the temporary building now blocks out the sun through my window...

    Anyway, my network manager and I have been told that we'll be having a meeting with an RM official in November 2009 about our jobs etc - what options do we have? The way we see it, the network manager will be pretty much redundant in what he would have to do in his current role as won't be needed, and I'll be a toner changer - obviously not something I'll stick around for if true?

    Also... TUPE - can someone tell me what it stands for/means?

    Sorry if anything has been discussed in threads before, but like I said I read through the forums and couldn't really get the answers I was looking for!

    Thanks

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    Grommit's Avatar
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    Be careful as RM is wanting to cut down on staff by a third .. are you in Stoke Newington or Hackney?

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    Under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations (known as 'TUPE'). the existing terms and conditions of your contract of employment will transfer automatically to your new employer. This means that you will normally carry on working for the new employer as before.

    quoted from direct.gov website

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    I was under the impression that all staff were to be TUPE'd (Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment)) and kept on their initial contract (inc. salary) and that their jobs are secure for x amount of years. I believe it has been suggested that the contract winners have in some cases offered the new tupe'es new contracts (with higher salary). Once the new contract is signed they are free to release them after a few months. Schools can keep certain staff if they like but must offer them a new position, i.e. an IT tech could be kept as an IT Teaching Assistant. NM/SM could be kept as a database admin, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seacider View Post
    Under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations (known as 'TUPE'). the existing terms and conditions of your contract of employment will transfer automatically to your new employer. This means that you will normally carry on working for the new employer as before.

    quoted from direct.gov website
    This true, but it doesn't preclude the new employer from instantly issuing redundancy notice. It is important to note that they MUST declare any potential redundancies before the transfer takes place (they probably won't tell you in person, but will mention it somewhere such as the LA's website). As Grommit mentioned that RM plan on cutting 1/3 staff,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee_K_81 View Post
    I was under the impression that all staff were to be TUPE'd (Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment)) and kept on their initial contract (inc. salary) and that their jobs are secure for x amount of years. I believe it has been suggested that the contract winners have in some cases offered the new tupe'es new contracts (with higher salary). Once the new contract is signed they are free to release them after a few months. Schools can keep certain staff if they like but must offer them a new position, i.e. an IT tech could be kept as an IT Teaching Assistant. NM/SM could be kept as a database admin, etc.
    Fine - I get to keep my salary and the term time only + 4 working but how about the working arrangements I have? My boss (the head) lets me work 2 weeks in the hol and use the other 2 weeks of time for out of hours working etc. I also go on 2 or 3 trips a year with students to ourdoor centres (all in term time), direct a KS3 drama production, organise activity day for all the students and the list goes on. The boss is very flexible and knows that all the work I do in school time is for the good of the school and is more than happy to support it. My guess is RM (or whoever) will not be. To them I'll be employed as toner changer or whatever and I don't think they'll take too kindly to me going to Wales for the week with Year 7. Now though the IT in schools is fine it's all the extras that keep me here - that's what makes it a fun place to work and I think it's all that sort of thing that will sadly vanish as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seacider View Post
    Under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations (known as 'TUPE'). the existing terms and conditions of your contract of employment will transfer automatically to your new employer. This means that you will normally carry on working for the new employer as before.

    quoted from direct.gov website
    unless there is an 'economic, technical or organisational' reason. In which case they can dismiss you

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcollings View Post
    Fine - I get to keep my salary and the term time only + 4 working but how about the working arrangements I have? My boss (the head) lets me work 2 weeks in the hol and use the other 2 weeks of time for out of hours working etc. I also go on 2 or 3 trips a year with students to ourdoor centres (all in term time), direct a KS3 drama production, organise activity day for all the students and the list goes on. The boss is very flexible and knows that all the work I do in school time is for the good of the school and is more than happy to support it. My guess is RM (or whoever) will not be. To them I'll be employed as toner changer or whatever and I don't think they'll take too kindly to me going to Wales for the week with Year 7. Now though the IT in schools is fine it's all the extras that keep me here - that's what makes it a fun place to work and I think it's all that sort of thing that will sadly vanish as well.
    Don't shoot the messenger. Yes i doubt RM will be too impressed with you going on residential trips, or that the school will want to pay for you to go as you will technically no longer work for them. Speak to your head, voice your concerns about the working arrangements and ask if they can be put into your contract. I know the feeling, once the benefits no longer outweigh the negative points of the job, it's time to start looking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee_K_81 View Post
    Don't shoot the messenger. Yes i doubt RM will be too impressed with you going on residential trips, or that the school will want to pay for you to go as you will technically no longer work for them. Speak to your head, voice your concerns about the working arrangements and ask if they can be put into your contract. I know the feeling, once the benefits no longer outweigh the negative points of the job, it's time to start looking.

    They don't have to honor the finer points of the contract if there are 'economic, technical or organisational' reasons. RM can give you a new contract provided the substantive parts of your job are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee_K_81 View Post
    Don't shoot the messenger. Yes i doubt RM will be too impressed with you going on residential trips, or that the school will want to pay for you to go as you will technically no longer work for them. Speak to your head, voice your concerns about the working arrangements and ask if they can be put into your contract. I know the feeling, once the benefits no longer outweigh the negative points of the job, it's time to start looking.
    @Lee_K_81 I wasn't having a go at you mate. That's the isssue though for me - I can do IT in loads of places, the reason I do it in school is for the extras - it's generally a fun place to be with lots of diversions which stop me getting bored. It seems under BSF all that goes - mind you I think were about 2013 so it may fall apart before then!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcollings View Post
    @Lee_K_81 I wasn't having a go at you mate. That's the isssue though for me - I can do IT in loads of places, the reason I do it in school is for the extras - it's generally a fun place to be with lots of diversions which stop me getting bored. It seems under BSF all that goes - mind you I think were about 2013 so it may fall apart before then!
    Dont worry i knew you werent having a go. I hope the ICT part of BSF falls apart, some of the teachers around here have been brainwashed about all the great technology their going to be using and how every kid will have a laptop, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee_K_81 View Post
    Dont worry i knew you werent having a go. I hope the ICT part of BSF falls apart, some of the teachers around here have been brainwashed about all the great technology their going to be using and how every kid will have a laptop, etc.
    And if you point out the reality that they are going to have to be the first line of support as they are going to have to contact the Helpdesk themselves then you are the one in the wrong...

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