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  1. #1
    Styloid's Avatar
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    BSF....

    I work for a company suppling schools with ICT stuff. we are not big and not involved with BSF.
    I have a number of issues with BSF, and like many here I am un-persuaded of its virtue and doubtful about its ability to deliver anything but invoicing for poor serivices.
    However its here. And technicians have a number of choice of how to respond to it.
    1) Get out of working in schools
    2) Cluck and windge but do nowt
    3) Accept it here and hope to infulence it or the better.

    I am thinking about organising a day conferance for those involved - ICT staff, school management, smll companies. It would be free of all sales / sponsorship / big company vision bollocks stuff / spin
    It would not be the usual Podium Powerpoint Paradigm , but simply be about sharing experiance and learning together and from each other, though hosted by skillful people who respect and encourage good discussion.

    My question is this.. What is this worth? My costing are making me think a place would cost around £150 for techies and £200 for school management.
    Would you consider comming for that ?
    We could go reduce the price but my feeling is this would reduce the effectivnes and the whole thing would look a bit shody.

    I am not promoting such an event here - just asking for some feedback. Id really appreciate your comments
    Thanks
    Last edited by Styloid; 14th May 2008 at 02:56 PM. Reason: spelling

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    jsnetman's Avatar
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    200 quid for something we can learn about and share here, I doubt it!

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    Styloid (16th May 2008)

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    webman's Avatar
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    Far too expensive. I hardly think schools will be prepared to pay £150 to send NMs and Technicians to a conference where they will essentially learn "I need to leave my job before I got royally shafted".

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    Styloid (16th May 2008)

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    small to medium suppliers know the problem, NMs and Techs are becoming aware of the problem from places like here ... the people that need targetting are LAs and Senior Leaders in schools.

    And what you tell them is always going to be tempered by Govt messages and what the big boys say.

    If you are interested in doing more then I would say to get in touch with BESA to see what help you can get, and see what other small / medium business are getting caught up in it all to get a larger group together.

    Charging for NMs and Techs is not going to work as schools will not pay as it is hard to classify it as CPD (which is why I take it as holiday to go to things about BSF / BETT / EdUGeek to make it simpler).

    We don't charge for our conferences as it eliminates a large barrier for some of us.

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    Styloid (16th May 2008)

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    greenfieldsupport's Avatar
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    Hells no...

    Thats like a whole 7% of my years budget :P

    why not host it at a school, im sure a few would be happy to let you out a room, and it would cost nothing...

    Tbf I don't even goto free conferences if I dont have the time / think its useless.......

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    Styloid (16th May 2008)

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    BlogRat's Avatar
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    Waste of time, BSF comes with strings attached. Sign up for managed services or fund your own IT, oh and by the way we'll give you the money for managed services but if you go it alone you'll have to find the £££££££££££ yourself.

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    Styloid (16th May 2008)

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    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    I've got my cynical hat on ... and I'm at independent, so BSF isn't even a problem for me...

    It sounds like a company trying to make money out of BSF * surely not! *

    At £150 - £200 a head, even at a posh hotel, you'd make a fortune from this if lots of folks came wouldn't you?

    It's not some official action group or steering committee, so the results are unlikely to have any influence in the long run.

    Personally, I think the schools' money would be better spent elsewhere.

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    Styloid (16th May 2008)

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    greenfieldsupport's Avatar
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    yes.. on my school ;P

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    Styloid (16th May 2008)

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    Deaks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlogRat View Post
    Waste of time, BSF comes with strings attached. Sign up for managed services or fund your own IT, oh and by the way we'll give you the money for managed services but if you go it alone you'll have to find the £££££££££££ yourself.
    It's worse than that! You have to pay MORE for the managed service than you used to for what you did in-house and had complete control over. You don't get new money to pay the managed service bill. Once it's all supplied and installed you have to start paying for it.

    One of the Academy's in Bristol had to pay so much for the VLE that there was no money left for computers. They have less than 100 PCs (inc. all desktops and mobile devices) for their 800 students to use.

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    Styloid (16th May 2008)

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    £200 a head!! The next conf is £30 a head at a very well specced conference centre and we are even offsetting our members hotel bills by £20 per night and paying for their breakfasts!
    Oh yes, and we are putting on a coach for them too.
    That's how you get people interested!

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    Styloid (16th May 2008)

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    Zoom7000's Avatar
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    My school refused to pay for transport for me to get to the EduGeek Conference. On top of this, they don't want to tell us a damn thing about BSF. Almost 2 months on, I still haven't been told by anyone, SLT, LA or otherwise who the preferred bidder are... Don't you just love the Internet!

    As mentioned above, we all know what the problems are with BSF, and in my experience I can't get the parties to sit down together in an office, let alone ask them to come discuss the issues and give me £200 each to come and tell me, frankly put, what they don't seem to want to tell me anyway!

    Sorry to sound rude, but from the start, BSF has sounded like a right disaster from the day I first heard about it and the news just gets grimmer and grimmer and you want us to pay £150 to come and be told that's how it is anyway, because it's either sign a nice contract and you won't pay a thing, or don't sign and you won't get a penny towards ICT for the next 11 years till the contract is up! No thank you... You don't have a business here and I won't be investing so... I'm out! :P

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    Styloid (16th May 2008)

  22. #12
    Styloid's Avatar
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    Thanks for all your commnets

    I have not really said very well what I hope the event will be - sorry.
    I can hear that there is huge resentment about BSF.
    I can also hear that budgets are very tight and there is no way many of those here could get to joint in.
    I can also here that your tired to the shit that big companies and goverment schemes give you, which while claiming to be pro computing in schools and education are in fact tossers in suits who dont give a damm and getting in the way of what they claim to be for.
    I can also here that you do care for ICT in schools - and care a lot.

    Im going to reflect more on the situation - and see if I can impove what im planning, so your responces have been very useful.

    I would just say - Im on your side - well on the side which values skill, cretivity IT in schools, and personal development.

    There are many of us across the whole spectrum of society - who are deelpy concerned about BSF.These include PM's of all political parties, big parts of local government, school managment, companies which supply schools....

    And some of us in ithe schools ICT industry acutally want to be there as its a great place to work, and we dont really care about profits to much - as its a wonderful thing to have work which is so meaningful. We like the techies in schools are faced with the same threat.

    I suspect even many within the BSF think its a mad / bad / half baked idea, but are leading live of "quite desperation" and keeping their heads down and paying the mortgage.

    I guess my plan was to bring all (or as many as possible) of these together for a well facilitated conversation.

    And yes it may be a pile of crap with no outcome - but my experiance is that it WONT BE.

    Dont you want the chance to speak ( and listen to) face to face with the men from Brussels, an MP, heads of school who are worried about effects on the school. I guarentee such an event would be free from podiums, powerpoint, and men in suits trying to sell you stuff. How good would that be?

    Sorry a lot of words here.
    More feedback will be appreciated.
    Thanks

  23. #13

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    I can get invited to Westminster Briefing events where there is a chance for this sort of thing for around the same price ...

    It is the price and that many here are not in a position to make a change within their schools.

    Are you saying that you wish to put together a pressure group that will lobby the various Govt people at UK and EU level to change / fix BSF?

    If that is what you are doing then please say so ... I think you would have significant backing on that, but few schools are going to cough up the cash to take part, and I don't think many here have the money to directly pay themselves.

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    Styloid (16th May 2008)

  25. #14

    broc's Avatar
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    The people 'we' are up against as far as BSF are concerned are HM Govt; the Prime Minister, various Ministers of State, the Treasury, Partnership for Schools, the PFI 'industry', Large ICT companies who specialise in outsourcing ICT, large building contractors....... not to mention the millions of parents who have children at semi-derelict schools who have been promised a better environment for their children to learn in......

    Do you seriously think a meeting where a few schools are represented can make a difference? I think not. I think the only way forward is to attempt to influence the BSF outcome at a local level; make sure staff & schools have a voice where they can.... so that they end up with something that goes some way to meeting their needs as it is already clear by wave 3 that the funding is inadequate for many school rebuilding projects in the pipeline.

    Schools should be making major demands upon the LAs, who in turn should be insisting that potential bidders provide solutions that meet the schools needs otherwise what we will end up with will be the minimum the bidders can get away with at the maximum cost. Maybe when we get the message across some bidders will think twice before bidding for BSF business........

    Meanwhile we could always hope the rising cost of materials coupled with the global credit crunch will make it even more difficult for Bidding Consortia to get the finance they need to fund their operations

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    Styloid (16th May 2008)

  27. #15
    jsnetman's Avatar
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    Sorry but I have to do this. Is anybody going to take you seriously when your grammar and spelling is atrocious? If you are going to persuade people in education about your ideas type your posts into word and correct them before doing a post.

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    Styloid (16th May 2008)

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