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BSF Thread, Building firms 'rigged contracts' in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by Geoff Welcome to the Internet, it doesn't work like that round here. Thanks for that Geoff, for ...
  1. #16
    contink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Welcome to the Internet, it doesn't work like that round here.
    Thanks for that Geoff, for a minute there I had a horrible feeling the "thought police" had taken over...

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by cap1601 View Post
    Hmmm, please get your facts right before you embarrass yourself. You will notice the entry for Carillion is Carillion JM. This infact is not Carillion, but Mowlem! Carillion purchased Mowlem 2 years ago and the problems were in Mowlem.

    Unless you have proof of malpractice against this company you keep your opinions to yourself
    Lol, I don't give a flying **** if it is Carillion or one of their subsidiaries - they are all the same to me. Once one buys another, they are just all part of the same problem.

    And, as I said, these were my opinions, so your comment is not welcome. If you have evidence to disprove my opinions, then by all means do, but as I was referring directly to the quoted article, my comments stand.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Lol, I don't give a flying **** if it is Carillion or one of their subsidiaries - they are all the same to me. Once one buys another, they are just all part of the same problem.

    And, as I said, these were my opinions, so your comment is not welcome. If you have evidence to disprove my opinions, then by all means do, but as I was referring directly to the quoted article, my comments stand.
    That type of language is not called for. And for the record I am a teacher. You sound like a spoiled brat who doesnt care for others opinionsl. If you believe all you read probably in the sun then your opinions are bound to be tainted, and clearly not educated. The quoted article, if taken from the bbc website, was infact updated to redress the facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OutToLunch View Post
    ... This company that you work for, I assume.
    errr, no but my partner does, if that answers your question. I didnt realise this forum was a closed shop and and old boys network.

  5. #20


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    I had a horrible feeling the "thought police" had taken over.
    And for the record I am a teacher
    ouch.

    I really don't see how anything has changed - Carillion are the focus of an OFT investigation because one of their companies (for whom they are responsible) allegedly broke the law.

  6. #21

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cap1601 View Post
    That type of language is not called for. And for the record I am a teacher. You sound like a spoiled brat who doesnt care for others opinionsl. If you believe all you read probably in the sun then your opinions are bound to be tainted, and clearly not educated. The quoted article, if taken from the bbc website, was infact updated to redress the facts.
    Lol, I love the assumptions that I'm not educated, that I believe everything I read in the papers, that I read the Sun, that I'm a spoiled brat etc...

    When in fact I've seen the direct result of Carillion's behaviour - a large area of Lancaster sat derelict, small businesses killed off because of it simply because Carillion couldn't get the planning permission to ruin the city.

    A company which is owned by them is simply part of that company and as such I have nothing but disdain for them. Sure, the employees will likely be as nice as everyone else, but the management could simply have horns, a tail and a big fork from what I can see.

  7. Thanks to localzuk from:

    webman (30th April 2008)

  8. #22

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    This is not a closed shop but it is aimed at a particular sector, the same way the TES forums are aimed at a particular group. Be aware that on your first post you attacked the opinion of a fellow member, he bit back. Do not be surprised at that. It happens here, TES forums, USENET, mailing lists, the pub ...

    BSF brings emotions and tempers to a boil for pretty evident reasons. The initial part of your post was setting the facts straight, butt the second part was as out of order as part of the reply you received.

    People will use strong language here to emphasise frustration at what appears to be yet another blunder by the government. If you have facts to show that the people we think are involved are not, or that the BBC has changed their statement then please feel free to post the links. In the same manner other members will be free to post their opinions based on facts they are aware of and their experiences.

    It is called discussion.

    Ding, ding! Seconds out, round two.

  9. 2 Thanks to GrumbleDook:

    broc (30th April 2008), webman (30th April 2008)

  10. #23

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    @localzuk

    Don't bite ... it is not worth it, and try to calm down the language a bit ... other than that continue to counter fact with fact (including experiences you have of the offending company).

  11. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    @localzuk

    Don't bite ... it is not worth it, and try to calm down the language a bit ... other than that continue to counter fact with fact (including experiences you have of the offending company).
    Sorry about the language but I feel very strongly about this issue.

  12. #25


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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Sorry about the language but I feel very strongly about this issue.


    Im not trying to start a fight with you but i remember not so long ago when you were on the other side of the "you dont agree with me therefore you read the sun". Its not good is it


    The way this country is going i can see BSF dieing all together. The govt. dont have the balls to stand up to these companies and will get ripped off, all the while the economy will be calapsing due to Labours mismanagement and quite bizarre practices of bailing out banks who make feck ups, to mention but one.
    Well tbh its nothing more than ive come to expect from Labour, how can they start critosising others for dodgy dealings and back handers when their own ship is no differant.

  13. #26

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post


    Im not trying to start a fight with you but i remember not so long ago when you were on the other side of the "you dont agree with me therefore you read the sun". Its not good is it
    I don't remember referring to the Sun before. Maybe the Daily Mail... But that's a whole different story :P

    The way this country is going i can see BSF dieing all together. The govt. dont have the balls to stand up to these companies and will get ripped off, all the while the economy will be calapsing due to Labours mismanagement and quite bizarre practices of bailing out banks who make feck ups, to mention but one.
    Well tbh its nothing more than ive come to expect from Labour, how can they start critosising others for dodgy dealings and back handers when their own ship is no differant.
    Agreed. And the council in Lancaster was Labour majority too.

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    According to Channel 4 news, same story .... at about the same time as the BBC report was released....

    "More than 100 construction firms, including some of Britain's biggest names, could face massive fines after being accused of rigging the price of building contracts.

    The Office of Fair trading investigated a wide range of contracts across the country, worth billions of pounds - from primary schools to a city hospital.

    Among the firms it investigated were construction giants Balfour Beatty and Carillion.

    The OFT thinks it has identified two scams.

    One is cover pricing, when a company that does not actually want the work puts in an artificially high bid so the company that does want the work can come in just below that with a price that is now low enough to get the job but is still higher than it would normally have been.

    In other cases companies would bill one another for compensation and the client would end up footing the bill.

    The OFT is investigating claims that a primary school spent £500,000 over its budget price, four companies forced a college to raise it's budget by 25 per cent and two bidders working together caused a hospice to spend an extra £10,000."

    Anyone who works in a school should be horrified at the idea that primary schools & colleges should be treated in this way, but anyone with a conscience should be asking what sort of company would force a hospice to spend more than it needed to?

    Money-grabbing b******s, if true.

  15. #28
    contink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cap1601 View Post
    errr, no but my partner does, if that answers your question. I didnt realise this forum was a closed shop and and old boys network.
    Actually no... but where I tend to get a little annoyed is when someone comes in and starts telling me and others that not only are their opinions not valued but not "allowed".

    Perhaps now would be a good time to start over?

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    "Carillion announced in March 2006 that the OFT had visited two Mowlem offices, shortly after the acquisition of Mowlem on 12 February 2006, and that it would fully co-operate with the OFT's investigation. The OFT's enquiries related to certain matters that arose prior to Carillion's acquisition of that business.

    Subject to ongoing cooperation, the OFT has granted leniency to Carillion JM Limited, thus reducing any fine which might ultimately be levied."

    But if we actually get back to the main point of BSF, what exactly are you afraid of? Redundancy? If so then welcome to the real world, it happens in just about every other industry.

    Or is is overcharging by the big companies? Yes they are in the industry to make a profit. Yes they will go over budget, and if you ask why, then probably because LEAs, and Senior management of schools want more than they can afford. Most schools are in a poor state and do not offer the facilities and enviroments which are needed in todays educational environment. We have curriculums to suit todays industry and therefore need appropriate environments to deliver it. Open up your minds. You and your wining friends will not change anything.

    And for our localzuk, I notice you are from Minehead, Somerset..... hehe you're next. BSF Somerset is on its way.

  17. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by cap1601 View Post
    "Carillion announced in March 2006 that the OFT had visited two Mowlem offices, shortly after the acquisition of Mowlem on 12 February 2006, and that it would fully co-operate with the OFT's investigation. The OFT's enquiries related to certain matters that arose prior to Carillion's acquisition of that business.

    Subject to ongoing cooperation, the OFT has granted leniency to Carillion JM Limited, thus reducing any fine which might ultimately be levied."

    But if we actually get back to the main point of BSF, what exactly are you afraid of? Redundancy? If so then welcome to the real world, it happens in just about every other industry.

    Or is is overcharging by the big companies? Yes they are in the industry to make a profit. Yes they will go over budget, and if you ask why, then probably because LEAs, and Senior management of schools want more than they can afford. Most schools are in a poor state and do not offer the facilities and enviroments which are needed in todays educational environment. We have curriculums to suit todays industry and therefore need appropriate environments to deliver it. Open up your minds. You and your wining friends will not change anything.

    And for our localzuk, I notice you are from Minehead, Somerset..... hehe you're next. BSF Somerset is on its way.
    Not a very cool response at all.

    You did say you were a teacher didn't you- unless I picked something up from a previous response that I shouldn't have? In that case you should be defined by a bit more professionalism. Sorry.

    We could equally state that "curriculum(s) to suit today's industry" needs teaching staff with adequate industry knowledge and work experience to be effective. But that wouldn't be nice

    Anyway- there has been misconduct on the part of major contractors and this just goes to show that LEAs and other interested parties need to be more careful when choosing who to work with. Perhaps the OFT should publish a list of approved suppliers whom they regularly inspect and "certify" as meeting financial regulations and obligations?

    Take care.

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