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BSF Thread, Tell us about BSF in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by Grommit Ok i have just done 3 hours of Yoga and I am feeling chilled again :-) ...
  1. #61

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit View Post
    Ok i have just done 3 hours of Yoga and I am feeling chilled again :-)
    Nice, I am off for a soak in the bath to relax, with the knowledge that I am out in London tomorrow with little access to the site. A bit of time to be offline.

    Niiiiice.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit View Post
    THE IDEA OF THIS THREAD IS SO AS SOMEONE CAN DO AN ARTICLE....THE IDEA OF THE ARTICLE I HOPE IS TO PAINT THE BSF OUTSOURSING IN A BAD LIGHT...
    The thread is called "Tell us about BSF".

    It is not called "Tell us about all of the bad things of BSF"

    It is not called "Paint BSF in a bad light"

    The thread is very interesting and thought provoking. If we (by we I mean our profession as a whole) come across in articles as very bitter, twisted, resistant to change, and deaf to others point's of view, and only lookig after our own jobs - as you come across - WE are the ones that will end up being painted in a bad light - NOT BSF!

    Balanced and rational arguments are what the article need's. Plenty of witch there are in this thread. It just needs to be compiled together in a manner that doesnt come across as bitter, twisted etc.

    Butuz

  3. 4 Thanks to Butuz:

    ArchersIT (14th March 2008), KarlGoddard (14th March 2008), Netman (14th March 2008), torledo (13th March 2008)

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butuz View Post
    The thread is called "Tell us about BSF".

    It is not called "Tell us about all of the bad things of BSF"

    It is not called "Paint BSF in a bad light"

    The thread is very interesting and thought provoking. If we (by we I mean our profession as a whole) come across in articles as very bitter, twisted, resistant to change, and deaf to others point's of view, and only lookig after our own jobs - as you come across - WE are the ones that will end up being painted in a bad light - NOT BSF!

    Balanced and rational arguments are what the article need's. Plenty of witch there are in this thread. It just needs to be compiled together in a manner that doesnt come across as bitter, twisted etc.

    Butuz
    Maybe you should read what I said again SLOWLY and you might understand what I am getting at. ... I agree on a rational argument anyday.. but we don't need someone with super intelligence feeding/giving super information to the enemy

    Are you that naive to think that because you are playing as a gentlemen they will... they want your Network as it means profits to them... Well not yours because Wales is not going to be purged by the BSF?..

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit View Post
    Maybe you should read what I said again SLOWLY and you might understand what I am getting at. ... I agree on a rational argument anyday.. but we don't need someone with super intelligence feeding/giving super information to the enemy

    Are you that naive to think that because you are playing as a gentlemen they will... they want your Network as it means profits to them... Well not yours because Wales is not going to be purged by the BSF?..
    That's enough brown-nosing of GD....at any rate, i'm sure his IQ is only above average.......:P

    Cue edugeek debate about IQ tests as indicator of intelligence

  6. #65
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    I'll be the other hand!!

    So, on the other hand managed service could provide us with proper career structure and more potential to suceed.

    Only if they don't make us redundant though after the 2 years of TUPED (chewpy-ed)

  7. #66
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    also.. schools with $#!T networks will get a better deal out of the BSF project....

    however, schools that allready have good networks could be shafted... hmmm...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joanne View Post
    I'll be the other hand!!

    So, on the other hand managed service could provide us with proper career structure and more potential to suceed.

    Only if they don't make us redundant though after the 2 years of TUPED (chewpy-ed)
    There's no time limit to the protection offered by TUPE.

  9. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit View Post
    Maybe you should read what I said again SLOWLY and you might understand what I am getting at. ... I agree on a rational argument anyday.. but we don't need someone with super intelligence feeding/giving super information to the enemy

    Are you that naive to think that because you are playing as a gentlemen they will... they want your Network as it means profits to them... Well not yours because Wales is not going to be purged by the BSF?..
    I'm no more super-intelligent than you, Broc, beeswax or most other members.

    @torledo: IQ is not a good measure of intelligence, it just means you know how to think in a particular manner. And in case you are wondering, 152 ... and it is purely down to knowing how to play the game.

    The only advantage I have to any other members is that I have a bit more of an insight into the minds of the BSF ideas people and the companies involved.

    Seriously ... if someone wants to take the 'BSF side' for a week I will arge from the other side of the fence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    I'm no more super-intelligent than you, Broc, beeswax or most other members.

    @torledo: IQ is not a good measure of intelligence, it just means you know how to think in a particular manner. And in case you are wondering, 152 ... and it is purely down to knowing how to play the game.

    The only advantage I have to any other members is that I have a bit more of an insight into the minds of the BSF ideas people and the companies involved.

    Seriously ... if someone wants to take the 'BSF side' for a week I will arge from the other side of the fence.
    I wasn't wondering, but 152!!!! that must make you top 1%, surely.

    I often take a similar 'alternate' stance on many subjects. Particulalry when i see a majority view being argued or defended i like to take the opposite stand in the name of 'balance'
    Last edited by torledo; 14th March 2008 at 09:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    Seriously ... if someone wants to take the 'BSF side' for a week I will argue from the other side of the fence.
    I can't do it for a week - I couldn't stand the grommit flames ;-)

    ----

    Without trying to inflate the ego of members of this board, it could be argued that by participating in such a forum we are more likely to be the most pro-active of network support personnel in schools, therefore we are more likely to be running stable, secure and innovative networks. However, this certainly isn't the case for all schools. We've all heard the horror stories from the new teachers from different schools and we've met the network manager who is obdurate to the improvement of the school network and to any change to the status quo. These schools will benefit massively as the 'baseline' brings these schools up-to-date.

    Having a homogeneous infrastructure across LA schools will provide massive benefits for the users of our networks and will provide real transferability. Teachers and pupils have a single network identity to access all their own resources from any school within the authority, indeed from any internet enabled PC. The movement of pupils across schools will become a joined up process where their user id, password, cash for the canteen, MIS data, VLE data all transfer with them automatically.

    The purchasing power of an entire LA will deliver real value for taxpayers' money. Authorities will be able to 'flex their muscles' with the big-boys and drive education prices down not just for the cash-rich schools with 2 or 3 specialisms, but for all.

    What about the current network support personnel, won't we be losing their expertise? Well, no, really. The good managed service providers will realise the expertise that their new employees provide and will keep these people involved on the 'front-line'. What BSF does provide is a 'widening of horizons'. Proper CPD will mean those with the talent will rise to the top of the educational IT support and will not only be providing innovation in 1 school but will be passing on their good ideas to whole cohorts of schools. With more and more of these roles developing, best practices will evolve, still on sites like this, that spread far and wide into school networks.

    ----

    Just a few of the benefits of BSF that I can see, through rose-tinted glasses of course!

  12. Thanks to mortstar from:

    Butuz (14th March 2008)

  13. #71
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    I have yesterday been given a copy of the guidance our county head teachers are receiving from the BSF board in our area following a techies meeting (we have them once a term). The guidance gives three options for discussion, none of which include keeping in school IT. There is to be no consultation on ICT provision that includes in house staff. The BSF project for the county will include ICT consultants to pick the managed service provider, and there will be no consultation with existing staff.

    How can this be a measured, every child matters approach. This is purely a pie cutter stamp out another school approach rather than letting schools with specific needs get a system that is tailored to them.
    We do very different things here than other schools in the area, as our student body demands different approaches from us, how can that not be recognised by BSF projects, the overall process and partnerships for schools. My only hope is that when schools are asked to assist in writing the SLA and service provision spec the staff here ask for what they have now and are not persuaded by the promises of the MSP. Bearing in mind that the systems and concepts promised that are not currently available are down to money not being available to us to set them up now.

    I've had a couple of rants so far, but I have a feeling there will be many more to come.

    DC

  14. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortstar View Post
    Just a few of the benefits of BSF that I can see, through rose-tinted glasses of course!
    I'm sorry I have to ask... WTF were you smoking?!! :P

    Those glasses weren't rose tinted they were opaque

  15. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    I wasn't wondering, but 152!!!! that must make you top 1%, surely.

    I often take a similar 'alternate' stance on many subjects. Particulalry when i see a majority view being argued or defended i like to take the opposite stand in the name of 'balance'
    So you have no Loyality or Honour then.. you are a"Fence Sitter" a person without conviction...

    but in reality you just argue for the sake of arguing...

  16. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    I wasn't wondering, but 152!!!! that must make you top 1%, surely.

    I often take a similar 'alternate' stance on many subjects. Particulalry when i see a majority view being argued or defended i like to take the opposite stand in the name of 'balance'
    Any other Mensa members here?

  17. #75
    Grommit's Avatar
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    Mortstar said in some bizarre fashion of having sex with a Preying Mantis

    Quote Originally Posted by mortstar View Post
    Having a homogeneous infrastructure across LA schools will provide massive benefits for the users of our networks and will provide real transferability. Teachers and pupils have a single network identity to access all their own resources from any school within the authority, indeed from any internet enabled PC. The movement of pupils across schools will become a joined up process where their user id, password, cash for the canteen, MIS data, VLE data all transfer with them automatically.

    The purchasing power of an entire LA will deliver real value for taxpayers' money. Authorities will be able to 'flex their muscles' with the big-boys and drive education prices down not just for the cash-rich schools with 2 or 3 specialisms, but for all.
    We all Agree that the bad schools will benifit from the BSF... but the good schools will be worse off

    But the "deliver real value for taxpayers' money" is not going to happen..

    1/The cost of supporting a school is going to double

    2/ Remember the Computers for Pupils ? The thousands and thousands of Laptops and PC's that the Government bought children on Free School Meals... well our Laptops and PC's were nearly a £100 more expensive than MISCO, and I said to the LA that we were being ripped by the supplier chosen by the LA and thay said that I cannot buy from MISCO or A N other and I have to by from the "chosen one"

    So where's your "flexing" here then..? the LA knew that it was more expensive but still chose them.. and we lost out on 50 laptops for children because of being forced to by at inflated prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by mortstar View Post
    What about the current network support personnel, won't we be losing their expertise? Well, no, really. The good managed service providers will realise the expertise that their new employees provide and will keep these people involved on the 'front-line'. What BSF does provide is a 'widening of horizons'. Proper CPD will mean those with the talent will rise to the top of the educational IT support and will not only be providing innovation in 1 school but will be passing on their good ideas to whole cohorts of schools. With more and more of these roles developing, best practices will evolve, still on sites like this, that spread far and wide into school networks.
    Take Hackney... the NM's are being phased out and replaced with a single "Technical Manager" overlooking the 10 BSF schools...

    The Technical Staff are being halved on the sites, one site from 3 to 1.5 tech's...

    The Network Managers are asked to apply for any job on the RM job board... but there is only 1 job in 10 BSF Builds for the Network Mangers Position... the other 9 will be TUPED for a short while until they can find another job...

    (infact there is only 1 job today in RM for a "Technical Manager")

    Then they will be retrenched under the Economic Opt Out Clause in the TUPE regulations..

    Now this is maybe the Template for RM BSF Rollout accross the country..



    PS.. If the BSF is so great why are none of the BSF Finished School Technicians on the board raving about it ?..

    a/ Maybe it's not that good...

    or b/ they have been gagged as I know that RM takes a very harsh view of negative threads about them.. even as an end user we were blocked from chatting on forums with the threat of losingn the software
    Last edited by Grommit; 14th March 2008 at 10:11 AM.

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