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BSF Thread, ICT Teachers finally find out what BSF means in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by ashok Hi all, but could it not be possible to excude the ICT side of things from ...
  1. #46
    conehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashok View Post
    Hi all,

    but could it not be possible to excude the ICT side of things from the whole BSF project based on the descretion of the LA and the school being revamped? One possible way to do this would be to have the school rebuild as per BSF guidelines but then have consultants who talk to the relavent IT services people at the school/establishment and implement the changes that are required as a one off rather than streamlining this as managed services. I think this may an alternative as it gives the schools the chance to update/refresh the equipment and infrastructure and still get to keep the IT in-house which will be better in terms of support as the whole team (NMs, senior ICT techs, ICT tech etc) are based on-site.


    Ash.
    Sorry I'm not actually answering your question, but taking it down a slightly different path, my question is could a LEA's schools and the existing LEA ICT department not align to provide a joined up managed service which meets the BSF requirements but retain existing flexibility/experience and maintains continuity of good provision?

    Many schools already have broadband, filtering, SIMS and managment information services support through the LEA, who are not out to make profits for shareholders. Surely adding the desktop/ network support staff within the schools to the same "team" is preferable to giving over the budget to a third party whose bottom line in maximising the profit out of the money available.

    So in essence, does anyone know if a LEA ICT department can be the allocated managed service provider under BSF edicts?

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    conehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ITWombat View Post
    Here's another quote from the same said Muppet.

    Death to independantly Controlled ICT in Schools..

    No more asking the ICT Staff to put a CD on the Server to have a cool an interesting lessson...

    The disparaging of technicians comment was from (johnbrown)
    To be honest, I think you are mis-interpreting him/her (ICTStaff), I think they are saying teachers will lose the freedom after BSF to ask somebody to quickly stick a new CD on the system. I agree it doesn't read that way at first, but given that the poster started the thread on TES with a warning that BSF would destroy current ICT autonomy within a school it makes more sense I think?
    Last edited by GrumbleDook; 18th February 2008 at 11:41 AM.

  3. #48

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conehead View Post
    So in essence, does anyone know if a LEA ICT department can be the allocated managed service provider under BSF edicts?
    I don't think the LEA itself can do it, but a company can be owned by the LEA which can.

    I have a sneaky suspicion that this is what is going to happen down here - or at least I hope so. Our county council has just partnered with devon and various other bits to create 'Southwest One' which has taken on the central ICT role. Hopefully they will be in a position to bid for the job. Better the devil you know...
    Last edited by GrumbleDook; 18th February 2008 at 11:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I don't think the LEA itself can do it, but a company can be owned by the LEA which can.

    I have a sneaky suspicion that this is what is going to happen down here - or at least I hope so. Our county council has just partnered with devon and various other bits to create 'Southwest One' which has taken on the central ICT role. Hopefully they will be in a position to bid for the job. Better the devil you know...
    If the company is in any way owned by the LEA or County Council there would be a conflict of interest issue preventing them from bidding for any BSF contracts. That's what we were told in Kent anyway. The LEA has an IT supprt organisation that has been shut out of BSF here.

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    conehead's Avatar
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    Hmm, interesting that a ICT department has to set up as a different company to do it first though, I suppose it's not unprecedented though. In my area the local council housing repairs is done by a separate "independant" company which was previously just the local council's own repairs department.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deaks View Post
    If the company is in any way owned by the LEA or County Council there would be a conflict of interest issue preventing them from bidding for any BSF contracts. That's what we were told in Kent anyway. The LEA has an IT supprt organisation that has been shut out of BSF here.
    That is the opposite of what I've heard - I had heard of at least one (I can't remember which) LEA which are proposing to do just that. Otherwise it is anti-competitive and could very easily be taken to the European Courts... A company is a company, whoever owns it.

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    The underlying problem is that no company can simply come in and bid for the ICT part of the contract. A consortium of companies bid for both the buildings and IT parts together.

    Equally to the above, a consortium that does not include the LEA company could claim bias on the part of the council if they chose to go with the company that does as the council would effectively be awarding itself the contract.
    Last edited by Deaks; 18th February 2008 at 11:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deaks View Post
    If the company is in any way owned by the LEA or County Council there would be a conflict of interest issue preventing them from bidding for any BSF contracts. That's what we were told in Kent anyway. The LEA has an IT support organisation that has been shut out of BSF here.
    The advice on this has varied with each LA I have heard looking at running it internally.

    IIRC Newcastle *is* running the services internally and it has been looked at by others.

    Allow me a moment to delve into the recess of cynicism. If a council can sell off the IT services to an existing commercial company or even spin it off as an independent company to bid for BSF / PFI work in other LAs, earning a chunk of money as part of the sell off, then it *will* happily do so ... and get rid of possible debt, and then buy in services as needed. After all ... the chance to get a few million in now, make another million or so in short term cost savings ... and then leave it for someone else to worry about in 10 years time ... then it seems a simple solution. If it doesn't work after 10 years they can always start the internal team again, blame council members that have retired, or blame Central Govt for pushing them in a particular direction.

    It has been happening this way across so many sectors, not just public sector, for many years ... and whilst some large companies are moving back to in-house teams there are many more companies that are outsourcing even more.

    The decision to run in-house or to get rid of them is usually a combined political and financial decision. Unions know this and do bugger all about it. information that comes down to schools is tweaked because of this, and the info that gets to support teams in schools is watered down even further.

    It is when the business plan is being written that it is important to get your school to put its foot down ... then again during the long listing, etc.

    I have had to back off a little of my digging due to workload at school and LA, but I will see if there is anything else new that has arisen after the various meetings / conversations that usually happen between agencies and companies around BETT.

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    all these responses

    all these posts, and noone has actually said what the words BSF stand for!!!

    have to google it now

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    BSF = Building Schools for the Future.

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    Are you sure? I thought it meant something that's sadly unprintable in this forum?


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    Like what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    Can users add content to the wiki ?

  15. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit View Post
    Can users add content to the wiki ?
    Yes, just log in with your usual Edugeek username/password.

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